I would like to hear what you think about this being declined.

Was this a baby step to a federation or just thousands of pages of stuff needed to make Europe fit for the next century?

While I'm sorry (a little) for all the frustration it causes all the politicians, lawyers, and bureaucrats throughout the rest of the EU, I'm delighted to see the Irish put the brakes on this one step (of many) towards collectivist servitude. Maybe it'll give the people of other member nations pause to consider whether they've been moving too quickly down that road, or — better — whether that's a worthwhile road at all.

For the treaty to take effect the rules require all EU countries to ratify it so what will happen now that one has rejected it. Quite simple, they’ll change the rules !

As with Dr Who, they'll just keep rehashing it and forcing it on us.

Yes, we have to remember who is supposed to be serving who..

Personally, I'm not pleased that the treaty has failed. I see the EU as an organisation which has the potential to remove all barriers to trade in Europe and regulate the technical details which govern the single market in a neutral way that produces the most efficient outcomes for all of us - and I include Switzerland in this given that we are a part of the single market in many areas. I don't see what this treaty failing actually gains us; the organisation wouldn't have changed much, it would just have become more efficient (less Commissioners, a voting system which works with 27 members, a single President rather than rotating it every six months, a more powerful European parliament). Now if no solution is sought there will be stagnation within the EU and a great deal more bureaucratic waste. I don't see why that's a good thing for anybody.

Wouldn't the EU President have been unelected? Also, the treaty makes the remaining commissioners less accountable then they are even now. As for removing borders, I also thought that several of the parts of the treaty were designed to limit the influence of the new Eastern members. That's hardly very accomodating...

Leading statement?

It benefits only politicians and the EU machine.

How dare the proles vote against signing away all their rights to a faceless mass they haven't elected. Again...

Ok, let's scrap the EU. That also solves this problem.

I think that's right. In it's present form it's dead. But the Euro bullies will take a long look at why the Irish rejected it (and anyone else who gets a vote and rejects it) then it'll come back dressed in different clothes.

From todays Sunday Times:-

Letting people vote ......

bet "they are not about to make that same mistake twice."

My understanding of the President is that it's just the same administrative/spokesperson role that the current President office entails, all they're really doing is changing the way the person is appointed - rather than rotate it between countries, all of the member states will just agree on a single person to do the job for 2.5/5 years. It would be more like a secretary-general of the United Nations than an actual policymaker.

Well, I'm sure many people would agree with you there, I just think that if the EU isn't going to go away (and this treaty vote won't change anything in that regard) we should at least hope for an EU that works. An EU that doesn't work effectively is the worst possible situation.

Ireland was the only country to get a vote.

Good old Labour promised the electorate in the UK a vote before the last election but now refuse to deliver on their promise.

Now, we're hearing all sorts of talk from the main Irish political parties of how the vote can be re-held ... to get the 'correct' vote. Absolutely disgraceful.

Even better were the suggestions that if you don't agree with the treaty then Ireland can be kicked out of Europe. Absolute tosh - the treaties governing free trade and freedom of movement etc are already in place. A country can't be expelled for not agreeing to go forward with a new treaty.

I used to be pretty pro-EU but it's increasingly becoming an out of control monster, heading towards a federal state and full of politicians and bureaucrats with their nose in the trough determined to ignore the will of the people.

I most certainly do not want an organisation over which I have very little democratic control handing down laws which I must obey. The Swiss are quite right to stay out of the whole mess, having negotiated suitable freedom of movement and trade.

To be honest I find Ireland's new found Euroscepticism quite puzzling considering its been one of the largest recipients of EU money to date. Prior to it joining the EU in the 70's it was one of the poorest countries in the EEC, now it is the second richest per capita, thanks in part to £40 billion in EU handouts. Low taxes and business friendly policies have no doubt played their part, but nobody can deny that Ireland is one of the EU's success stories.

Why should being a success story of past EU policy equate to rubberstamping everything that comes out of it irrespective of its merits?

Freedom of trade and movement - good.
Federal state with unaccountable rulers and lawmakers - bad.

We need to change the direction of the EU. Voting 'No' to this treaty was one of the few ways to do it. At least Ireland offered the people the chance to have their say - unlike every other EU country.

It boggles the mind that anyone could have expected anything else. History in general (and the U.S. in particular) demonstrate what happens when folks are duped into thinking bigger is better. (It may be better for those wishing to gain, consolidate, maintain, and exploit despotic and unaccountable control, but it's not better for the folks being controlled.)

That's the nature of the beast. Surrender your national sovereignty "for the greater good" (or whatever the propaganda du jour), and an organisation over which you have very little democratic control handing down laws which you must obey is inevitable.

An article in the Irish Times this morning states that now EU foreign ministers say that Ireland will not be excluded. But the idea now, will be to include a few qualifications to "address Irish concerns" and allow another referendum. So it will just be packaged differently and we will have to vote on it until it is passed...

At least we get our say in how the future of Europe is. We can keep rejecting it until we believe its good for us. If a repackaging addresses some of the issues with the treaty then that is surely a good thing.

But we can't be greedy, as has been pointed out already, us Paddies have done very well out of the EU.