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View Poll Results: Will Trump be a good President?
Yes 35 27.34%
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  #241  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:08
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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For me, his one redeeming quality is his supposedly good relationship with Putin, who has been sabre rattling a bit too much lately.

I won't hold my breath, but it's the only good thing I can come up with.
He's been lieing outright about his relationship with Putin. The question though is, which part is a lie, as he says he knows Putin as well as he doesn't, see here. However, it's fact that he's a liar.

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pilatus1 was faster.
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  #242  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:10
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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My objection is that America doesn't seem to be itself anymore.
The difference between the US now and say 15 years ago is that those protesters would have been hanging out at the mall. Except now they've run out of ways of kiting their credit limits. The "idealism" is a very low cost way of appearing socially acceptable.
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  #243  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think the right has a particular objective most of the time. The left are quite hazy about what they want, only that they don't like something.

When I look at the protesters, I wonder if they even know or understand what they even want. So they can go on for days until they get tired.
Oh, the right can be pretty hazy too and probably encompasses even more divergent opinions than the left.
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  #244  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:12
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Last time we were in the States, we spent some time in Boston and CApe Cod then drove to Virginia viy NY and NJ. When staying on the New Jersey Shore, we spent a day at Atlantic City on a day of strikes due to Trump terrible wages and workers' hours and conditions. How anyone can believe he will represent the 'little' people- is beyond me.

And all this posturing about cheap imports from China- when the millions of Trump red caps used during the campaign all imported from .... China, of course
To be fair, the Trump Taj Mahal has been owned by Carl Icahn since 2014. DT no longer is involved with it, the only connection is in the name which is "rented" by Icahn.
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  #245  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:14
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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I think the right has a particular objective most of the time. The left are quite hazy about what they want, only that they don't like something.

When I look at the protesters, I wonder if they even know or understand what they even want. So they can go on for days until they get tired.
Isn't this a textbook example of "confirmation bias"? It pretty much falls into line with everything you post and every link you stack up.

See, anyone can fall for it...
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  #246  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:15
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Oh, the right can be pretty hazy too and probably encompasses even more divergent opinions than the left.
Yes, true. There are all kinds of fringes. The trolling we've been seeing has been quite insane as well.

I'm having trouble recalling right-wing protests of late. They seem to march in straight lines through a square as quickly as possible.
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  #247  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:18
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Well, Sanders would have eliminated Clinton had the DNC not tilted the table. And Biden would have beaten Trump had Hillary not jockeyed for her privilege.

The DNC will fracture.
Or at least be thrown into much the same position the GOP was in in 2008. That crisis lead to an upsurge in the Tea Party and other fractitious groups who eventually managed to purge the party of a lot of dead wood.

I expect the Dems are heading towards their own Tea Party moment. They may yet throw the Clintons under the bus.
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  #248  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:20
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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In the meantime- with exactly the same numbers under the French voting system- Clinton would have been elected with more than 55% of the vote - and everyone would be talking about the 'will of the people'... to elect Clinton.


Democracy can mean 100 things, under 100s of regimes.
True. She would have won in any direct democracy, really. Which the US is not (or only in parts). Most countries aren't. Some would say only one country really is, the one most EFers are living in. And some would even argue the US is not a democracy at all.
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  #249  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

The whole things still feels so surreal. Sam Harris encapsulated it pretty well in his recent podcast:

"Is there a historical or psychological precedent for this? I have no idea. But we’re about to find out what happens to a man with a famously, palpably, visibly unhealthy ego who suddenly triumphs over everyone who ever doubted him. This was a man when he voted in New York at his polling place got jeered by a crowd on Tuesday, in a city that voted 87% against him. And one day he’s going to ride back into town on Air Force One.

Imagine the way his ego feels right now. Just imagine the satisfaction Trump will feel when he takes possession of the White House and shows President Obama the door. The first black president who humiliated him in front of all the Washington elites at the White House Correspondents’ Dinner. (Go watch footage of that.) All those laughs at his expense. Trump has been a punchline for decades. He’s been the Rodney Dangerfield of billionaires. But that moment with Obama at the podium was the worst. And now he gets to tell Barack Hussein Obama to get out of his house, and then tear his legacy to shreds. You’ve got the first black president being shown the door by a man who always questioned his legitimacy in racist terms and who has now been officially endorsed by the KKK. Only Shakespeare could do this moment justice."

Edit: Found more accurate transcript.
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  #250  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:23
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Yes, true. There are all kinds of fringes. The trolling we've been seeing has been quite insane as well.

I'm having trouble recalling right-wing protests of late. They seem to march in straight lines through a square as quickly as possible.
The right-wing has got what it wanted. Now they'll have to deal with it.
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  #251  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:25
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Or at least be thrown into much the same position the GOP was in in 2008. That crisis lead to an upsurge in the Tea Party and other fractitious groups who eventually managed to purge the party of a lot of dead wood.

I expect the Dems are heading towards their own Tea Party moment. They may yet throw the Clintons under the bus.
I saw more consistent anti-Hillary vehemence from disgruntled Bernie supporters than from Trump supporters. The things coming out from Jill Stein's side attacked Clinton more than it attacked Trump. That is a deep generational divide between career Democrats and the party's millennial constituency. Trump would have to commit a grievous atrocity to unite that. If Trump moderates himself and actually accomplishes positive things, they will have trouble uniting.
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  #252  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:51
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Or at least be thrown into much the same position the GOP was in in 2008. That crisis lead to an upsurge in the Tea Party and other fractitious groups who eventually managed to purge the party of a lot of dead wood.

I expect the Dems are heading towards their own Tea Party moment. They may yet throw the Clintons under the bus.
But surely the Clintons are anyway too old to start new political roles. By the time of the next Presidential election they will both be nearing mid Seventies.

Trump is already the oldest US President at Inauguration time.
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  #253  
Old 11.11.2016, 12:53
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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But surely the Clintons are anyway too old to start new political roles. By the time of the next Presidential election they will both be nearing mid Seventies.

Trump is already the oldest US President at Inauguration time.
As senior politicians I believe they have a huge weight of influence over the direction the party choses to go.
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  #254  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:04
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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Protest is quite alright in the US. I think its healthy, although easily becomes counter-productive. Particularly if it escalates into violence. I think the violent anti-Trump protests we saw in California and BLM is what mobilised many people to vote for Trump.

I'm sure some of the smarter leftists will start trying to tamp it down when they realise it is having an opposite effect.
What about the hateful and violent Trump supporters? They have have been far worse in the lead up this election.

What sort of Presidential candidate questions the Nationality of the current president? What sort of President will he be if he believes its alright to grab pussy, or threatens to throw his opponent into jail if he wins? What sort of president will he be when he has a history of being a racist, misogynistic, tax evading cheat who stiffs his own employees?

I tell you its nuts, if you think he would be better then Hillary for all her faults, then you are also nuts. Its not about Republican or Democratic values, here we have a right wing, sociopath demagogue who has gained his position through cheating and lies to become the most powerful person on the planet! and I don't need any media, social or news outlet to tell me so...
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  #255  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

And then there's Donald himself personally promoting violence -
All the times Trump has called for violence at his rallies
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  #256  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:11
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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here we have a right wing, sociopath demagogue who has gained his position through cheating and lies to become the most powerful person on the planet!
Except that he is not right wing (that would be his VP, Pence ), he is very middle of the road.

And the most powerful person on the planet is Putin.

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I don't need any media, social or news outlet to tell me so...
How else would you have come to such a strage conclusion?

Tom
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  #257  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:16
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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What about the hateful and violent Trump supporters? They have have been far worse in the lead up this election.
Where did you see that? I know some hecklers were pummelled inside Trump rallies. But people were beaten up, shot at, and killed by anti-Trump protesters outside of rallies.


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What sort of Presidential candidate questions the Nationality of the current president?
Hillary Clinton. Her campaign started the Obama birth certificate question when she ran against him.


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What sort of Presidential candidate questions the Nationality of the current president? What sort of President will he be if he believes its alright to grab pussy, or threatens to throw his opponent into jail if he wins? What sort of president will he be when he has a history of being a racist, misogynistic, tax evading cheat who stiffs his own employees?
And then Obama and Clintons invite rappers to perform for them on stage laced with colourful lyrics. There is quite a lot of over-reaction and hypocrisy over Trump's foul mouth. I don't think it is as important as how some people would like to play it out to be.

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I tell you its nuts, if you think he would be better then Hillary for all her faults, then you are also nuts. Its not about Republican or Democratic values, here we have a right wing, sociopath demagogue who has gained his position through cheating and lies to become the most powerful person on the planet! and I don't need any media, social or news outlet to tell me so...
So in this, the value here is a needed change in direction. It could potentially go sideways and get disastrous. But relax for now, it hasn't yet. And there really isn't a lot anyone can do about this for now. I'll give you a minute of whining along with you if it makes you feel better.

Personally, I could give a flying fck about ideology. I'm sick of it. I want 0 ideology, and I only want results from these bastard politicians. That is what I am looking at. If Trump truly starts doing things, like obfuscating his failures, abusing his position, advancing an ideology and forcing it down people's throats, I'll join you in protest, ok? In the meantime, do you think you can consider how this opportunity might benefit all of us? Is that really nuts?
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  #258  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:22
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plZRe1kPWZw

Anyone would think the second coming had happened...
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Old 11.11.2016, 13:26
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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How anyone can believe he will represent the 'little' people- is beyond me.
let's face it. he's not. now that he's in power, the little people will be quickly forgotten.
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  #260  
Old 11.11.2016, 13:58
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Re: Will Trump be a Good President?

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And the most powerful person on the planet is Putin.
How do you figure?
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