Since we had a whole discussion about Sharia Law, in which I voiced my disgust at a large part of it. I'd like to make a thread in which I (and hopefully others) show that I'm not completely intolerant of foreign customs that are different from our Western ways. Basically, things that we don't agree with, but also things we don't find particularly outrageous, and maybe even better in some ways.

I'll start:

After reading about the subject and having spoken to people from India about it, I have finally concluded that arranged marriages get somewhat a bad rep. This being said, I admit to not being crazy about the whole institution of marriage as a whole and don't find it particularly "sacred" like most people do. I am all for free will, but I'm also a realist and know that people make bad decisions all the time, and they also marry for money, stability, fear of being alone, you name it.

Arranged marriage, how it's done today in India, has some features that can make it superior to the random way people run into someone and get married based on love. Arranged marriages are put together by people with life experience under their belts (which is never to be discounted) and are looking out for the long term happiness of a family member. They are also factoring in important things like financial stability and future life goals which maybe minimized or dismissed by a couple who are just "in love", often to the couple's peril.

In movies arranged marraiges usually depict some unattactive old obese guy looking for a ripe sixteen year old, whose family pays him a large sum of money to get rid of their daughter. It's very rarely the case, especially today. Marriage has many practical functions beyond just the pairing of two people in love, which brings out the biggest criticizers, who obviously have a problem with the fact that arranged marriage doesn't seem to concern itself too much with love. But let's be honest, people, love was never really a factor in the history of marriage until fairly recently. Plus, who's to say that there is no love in an arranged marriage? I think anyone has the capacity to love another, no matter how different they are.

It's a relatively long process, with the couple's attraction to each other and compatibility (personality, life goals, etc.) being a huge deciding factor. It's a time-tested and in some ways sensible system that actually takes the long-term future of the couple into consideration, which I can't say about most marriages these days. I think that most people, no matter what culture they are from, love their children, and want what's best for them. They wouldn't intentionally pick someone who would abuse them or mistreat them. So when it comes to arranged marriages, I have learned to take it in good faith and cut the tradition some slack.

Interesting thoughts about arranged marriages. Juding by the success rate of non-arranged marriages (divorce ~50%, no?) - they are not all that great. Maybe arranged is better?

Foreigners speaking French.

Excellent thread, by the way...

Well, one that many find abhorrent but doesn't bother me is the Koreans' (and others) taste for eating dogs. I find the arguments against this not persuasive, many of them can be equally applied to pigs yet many who decry the eating of dog will happily chomp down on a ham sandwich.

Some celebrity marriages appear to be arranged.

Polygamy: Surely it is more moral to maintain and support all the women with whom you wish to sleep (and their offspring), rather than keep one wife and a number of mistresses on the side?

Anything tartare.

Those cultures who burp at the dinner table to indicate enjoyment of the meal is pretty much acceptable in my book.

That's quite common in some parts of the Uk too

Eating with fingers.

And chopsticks, for that matter.

Weird, messy, but context is everything (and no, I never eat with chopsticks even though I can - there are few things more pretentious for an Englishman to be seen doing in public).

Membership of a church or similar organisation.

I couldn't do it myself, but I can see plenty of reasons why it is a good idea: For comfort, support, a good social life and, if nothing else, a damned good sing-song on a Sunday morning!

Dining on a couple of litres of molten cheese is one barbaric custom which I got used to.

Naked hiking and nude sunbathing. These western practices used to appall me. Now that I've seen a few nude beaches I understand it's all about connecting with Nature and being 'all natural', although there are invariably a few w@nkers around. Literally.

(Now I'm off to eat a single-serving microwaved Moitie-moitie cheese fondue for lunch. Never thought I could love cheese so much.)

The Balkan/Middle Eastern man-sits-in-a-cafe-with-his-mates-while-his-wife-stays-at-home thing, which is widely misinterpreted by people from Western Europe:

It is often perceived to be a sign of the oppression of women: The men are out and about, drinking coffee or raki, while their women are confined to the harem, unable to leave the house except to go shopping.

I wouldn't presume to speak for every nation or household in the region, but in my experience (rural Greece), the men stay in the cafe all evening because they are not allowed to go home.

In many Greek families, when a daughter marries someone, her father builds her a house. The man is welcome to live in the house with his wife, of course, but the house is hers, built by her dad, regardless of what might happen with the marriage.

The home, therefore, is the wife's domain. It belongs to her, and she remains in control of who sits in the kitchen or sitting room, who eats, who drinks, and when. If she decides to have some friends round to talk about, er, women's things, then she turfs her husband out, and he has to find somewhere to go. Of course, he is likely to go without a murmur of protest, as who'd want to sit with a crowd of cackling women all evening, when he could be nursing a glass of raki with likeminded exiled gentlemen in the local ouzeri?

So, while the women spend their evenings at each others' houses, laughing, giggling, screeching, and doing all the other strange and noisy things that women do when they come together, the men get drunk with their comrades in public.

Meanwhile, along come Tarquin and Cressida, clutching their copy of the Guardian (international edition), who see all these men lounging around, with not a woman in sight, and who conclude, therefore, that the wives of these chaps must be forcibly confined to their homes, and are, therefore, horribly oppressed.

That is not to say that misogyny does not exist in this part of the world - far from it! - rather, that groups of men in bars and cafes are not the sign of such misogyny that many of us presume.

A friend of mine in the UK, a devout Hindu, finally got married two years ago after a string of introductions. Her family are very religious and introduced her to a number of suitors, non of which she was happy with. Although she did not have an arranged marriage as such, time was against her at the ripe old age of 27, she eventually she found her Mr Right and married him after 3 months or so.. In some respects, I think this way of life is easier... the hassle is taken out of finding the right partner, but at the same time, so is some of the fun! But sometimes I wonder how happy she really is. Financial security seems to be the key factor for her. She works hard and has laid down the path that her husband must lead now. She is bitterly disappointed that she married below her but for the sake of keeping her family happy she is able to put this behind her. If things ever get bad, she will never leave him (nor will she allow him to leave! - she's quite a dominant character) and for this i really admire her and people like her... i think all too often these days, people see divorce as the easy way out, but at the same time, i thank my lucky stars that i am in control of my life.


as to other customs acceptable... i accept slurping of soup by my chinese friend!! it was an insult to her when i didnt slurp out of the bowl! although for anyone else...it's a matter of tilting the bowl slightly, spoon the soup up away from you and raise the spoon to your mouth... not the mouth to the spoon!

Walking in tukkies or barefoot in the city I find quite acceptable when it's very hot

I just wrote a very long post in response to this paragraph, and the computer just ate it.

In summary: While it is important not to take offence at the weird customs of others, we are under no obligation to observe such customs ourselves if we feel uncomfortable doing so.

We should not actively seek to cause offence, but, for example, there is no reason why non-muslims should fast during Ramadan, or why tee-totallers should toast with vodka when concluding a deal in Vladivostok.

Tolerance is a two way street, and while we should take care to avoid being rude to others, they should also acknowledge that we have our cultural norms and expectations, too.

Eating with your hand. I remember once having a conversation with someone who went on about how unhygenic it was to eat with your hands. It struck me as hilarious. They'd rather trust the hygiene of the overworked dishwasher than their own hand washing expertise. heh.

Also- Indian cultures (especially south indian brahmin) culture has thing that when a woman has a period she's out of commission for three days. Can't step into the kitchen, can't clean, launder clothes, nothing. And she's not allowed to help in child rearing- no touching anyone else, in fact.

I used to think it was barbaric. Now I think... how pleasant. The woman atleast gets three days a month as a holiday from household chores. SOMEONE else do all the work. I'm going to nap into the afternoon, shower, and read a book as I eat the lunch someone else made me!

Now I just need to get my south indian brahmin husband to be a bit more conservative...

As for the arranged marriage thing- my culture is based on this notion that compatibility of family and social standing and education is more important than any notion of love. For my parents it was entirely incidental that my husband and I do actually love each other. Far more importantly, the families get on famously well- he's as well educated as me, financially on the same sort of level as my education allows me to be. And we're from the same social background.

We were friends when we were young. Our parents reintroduced us for the purpose of getting us married to one another and they succeeded. At our wedding so many people said congratulations to our parents for arranging our marriage and bringing up "obedient children" who listen. Heh.

Some years ago that would've bothered me. Now, not so much. It gives my parents some comfort that there was some due diligence, oversight to make sure he was right for me not just emotionally- but in terms of the other important factors too.

Obviously we can't compare divorce rates between arranged marriages and normal marriages, since too many factors come into play, but it's true that the institution of marriage in the Western world has become sort of a joke. In places like India, where community and family are much more important, and everyone in a village knows each other (as well as a few villages away), arranged marriage seems like a tradition that was formed and perfected through thousands of years with practicality in mind more than anything else. Any roots of malice or misogynysm (like in Sharia Law) seem to be non-existent.

I've seen enough couples sputter away once the initial feelings and excitement wear off (and they're forced to realize just how incompatible they are) to conclude that when it comes to marriage over here, it's too easy and we have little to teach the rest of the world. I don't even think it should be state-sanctioned, but that's a whole other ball of wax that I won't get into.

Then maybe you should become a Muslim. Polygamy was apparently designed for this purpose. Also you may not necessarily have your pick. As in the Iran and Iraq war men were obliged to take their dead brothers wives. Temporary marriages were designed so that any offspring would have a father to support them. Surely a better system though is for women to live in a society where women do not need to exchange sex for financial stability.
Biologically women outlive men, they endure, so it makes more sense for women to take many husbands and it would help to keep population growth in check.