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13.08.2009, 00:50
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | You mean this sorry thread that Evilshell started and even admitted is very loosely topical?
My theory is, Evilshell wanted to set forth with a little America-bashing, and when someone came on who disagreed with her views, presented valid opinions, and didn't cave to mod pressure, she couldn't take the heat, and now you're advising her to get out of the kitchen.
Moral of the story - don't post a volatile thread like this one, present an opinion, and then expect it to go uncontested. That's not how the real world works.
Morg | | | | | I'm advising her to walk away as clearly you just want to keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and no one is getting anywhere - it is a debate that has no answers and no end - why keep at it like a dog with a bone? you disagree with Evilshell she disagrees with you - neither of you will change your stance and why should you? so it's been flogged enough do you not agree?
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13.08.2009, 00:57
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | I'm advising her to walk away as clearly you just want to keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and no one is getting anywhere - it is a debate that has no answers and no end - why keep at it like a dog with a bone? you disagree with Evilshell she disagrees with you - neither of you will change your stance and why should you? so it's been flogged enough do you not agree? | | | | | Who's doing the flogging here? Both you and she have given me multiple negative reps for presenting my opinion in this forum. Your reps have been flavored with personal attacks and insults. I'm prevented from citing the PMs, but the general tenor is - I disagree with you, therefore you are an idiot.
The debate has an answer - gun ownership is allowed by the Second Amendment, period. She may not agree, and that's her opinion, but don't expect me to take any argument that flows from that premise seriously.
You can leave whenever you want, I'm certainly not able to keep you here.
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13.08.2009, 01:09
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | Talk about being hypocritical Morgan, you groan at me for quoting from Huffington Post,(one of the US's most widely read new sources), you applaud others who claim that I use some kind of obscure source and others who call it " vacuous" contributing nothing to the discussion. However, what you fail to miss is that you then quote exactly the same article. While your other buddies who claimed I was vacuous are still discussing other info that I posted - so I must have contributed something! Go get your own news sources if you want to call me vacuous and contributing nothing! The little three mile area that I just came back from had two shootings in the last 24 hours. So, whoever asked the question about whether walking around parading a gun would make for a safer environment- I don't think so. Those doing the shooting don't care if you have a gun or not. If I walked into that little oasis of hope and refuge packing, then what kind of message am I sending to those kids? | | | | | | Quote: | |  | | | Strange as it may seem to outsiders, please don't overlook the fact that in some US localities, openly carrying sidearms is perfectly legal and by no means uncommon. These same localities also happen to enjoy the lowest violent crime rates in the country.
The fellow who has received so much press for having exercised his right to carry at a "town hall meeting," when given the chance to speak for himself, makes it clear that his objective was not the "parading of weaponry" as a "threat to bypass the democratic process and take the country by force." It's hysterical, ill-informed caricatures like hoppy's that contribute nothing but vacuous negativity to an exchange like this, presuming to both know and judge the motives of another — and being in abject error on both counts: | | | | | Hoppy, first you attacked my wife, now you're misquoting me. I'm very close to petitioning you be banned. You're bordering on hysteria, it's obvious from your tone.
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13.08.2009, 01:18
| | | | Re: How is America going to end?
OK Morgannon you didn't steal my post?
Here's the original in Huff post that i quoted from | Quote: |  | | | | Quote: |  | | | WASHINGTON — | Quote: |  | | | Militia groups with gripes against the government are regrouping across the country and could grow rapidly, according to an organization that tracks such trends. The stress of a poor economy and a liberal administration led by a black president are among the causes for the recent rise, the report from the Southern Poverty Law Center says. Conspiracy theories about a secret Mexican plan to reclaim the Southwest are also growing amid the public debate about illegal immigration. Bart McEntire, a special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told SPLC researchers that this is the most growth he's seen in more than a decade. "All it's lacking is a spark," McEntire said in the report. | | | | | | | | | | It's reminiscent of what was seen in the 1990s – right-wing militias, people ideologically against paying taxes and so-called "sovereign citizens" are popping up in large numbers, according to the report to be released Wednesday. The SPLC is a nonprofit civil rights group that, among other activities, investigates hate groups.
Last October, someone from the Ohio Militia posted a recruiting video on YouTube, billed as a "wake-up call" for America. It's been viewed more than 60,000 times.
"Things are bad, things are real bad, and it's going to be a lot worse," said the man on the video, who did not give his name. "Our country is in peril."
The man is holding an AR-15 semiautomatic rifle, and he encourages viewers to buy one.
Story continues below
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While anti-government sentiment has been on the rise over the last two years, there aren't as many threats and violent acts at this point as there were in the 1990s, according to the report. That movement bore the likes of Timothy McVeigh, who in 1995 blew up a federal building in Oklahoma City and killed 168 people.
But McEntire fears it's only a matter of time.
These militias are concentrated in the Midwest, Pacific Northwest and the Deep South, according to Mark Potok, an SPLC staff director who co-wrote the report. Recruiting videos and other outreach on the Internet are on the rise, he said, and researchers from his center found at least 50 new groups in the last few months.
The militia movement of the 1990s gained traction with growing concerns about gun control, environmental laws and anything perceived as liberal government meddling.
The spark for that movement came in 1992 with an FBI standoff with white separatist Randall Weaver at Ruby Ridge, Idaho. Weaver's wife and son were killed by an FBI sniper. And in 1993, a 52-day standoff between federal agents and the Branch Davidian cult in Waco, Texas, resulted in nearly 80 deaths. These events rallied more people who became convinced that the government would murder its own citizens to promote its liberal agenda.
Now officials are seeing a new generation of activists, according to the report. The law center spotlights Edward Koernke, a Michigan man who hosts an Internet radio show about militias. His father, Mark, was a major figure in the 1990s militia movement and served six years in prison for charges including assaulting police.
Last year, officials warned about an increase in activity from militias in a five-year threat projection by the Homeland Security Department.
"White supremacists and militias are more violent and thus more likely to conduct mass-casualty attacks on the scale of the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing," the threat projection said.
A series of domestic terrorism incidents over the past year have not been directly tied to organized militias, but the rhetoric behind some of the crimes are similar with that of the militia movement. For instance, the man charged with the April killings of three Pittsburgh police officers posted some of his views online. Richard Andrew Poplawski wrote that U.S. troops could be used against American citizens, and he thinks a gun ban could be coming.
The FBI's assistant director for counterterrorism, Michael Heimbach, said that law enforcement officials need to identify people who go beyond hateful rhetoric and decide to commit violent acts and crimes. Heimbach said one of the bigger challenges is identifying the lone-wolf offenders.
One alleged example of a lone-wolf offender is the 88-year-old man charged in the June shooting death of a guard at the U.S. Holocaust Memorial Museum in Washington.
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On the Net:
Southern Poverty Law Center: http://www.splcenter.org/ | | | | | Now here is yours: | Quote: |  | | | Officials see rise in militia groups across U.S.
SULLIVAN, Associated Press Writer Eileen Sullivan, Associated Press Writer – Wed Aug 12, 3:50 am ET
WASHINGTON – Militia groups with gripes against the government are regrouping across the country and could grow rapidly, according to an organization that tracks such trends.
The stress of a poor economy and a liberal administration led by a black president are among the causes for the recent rise, the report from the Southern Poverty Law Center says. Conspiracy theories about a secret Mexican plan to reclaim the Southwest are also growing amid the public debate about illegal immigration.
Bart McEntire, a special agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, told SPLC researchers that this is the most growth he's seen in more than a decade. | | | | |
Mine is post 258 yours is 267
Now on top of that one of your buddies earlier called me ot task saying feacestiously that I should always put my qoutes in qoutation marks becuase otherwise people might think that I know what I am talking about. If we are dscussing being fair here in relation ot who can or cant comment, why didn't they call you to task on using no quotation porcedure and no weblink?
KISS my Acuity
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13.08.2009, 01:27
| | Banned | | Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Northern Indiana, USA
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | OK Morgannon you didn't steal my post?
Here's the original in Huff post that i quoted from
Now here is yours: 
Mine is post 258 yours is 267
Now on top of that one of your buddies earlier called me ot task saying feacestiously that I should always put my qoutes in qoutation marks becuase otherwise people might think that I know what I am talking about
KISS my Acuity | | | | | Hoppy.
You do know that story can be distributed to other outlets, yes? And it didnt' arise from the Post, it came from the AP?
From Wikipedia:
The Associated Press ( AP) is an American news agency. The AP is a cooperative owned by its contributing newspapers, radio and television stations in the United States, which both contribute stories to the AP and use material written by its staff journalists. Many newspapers and broadcasters outside the United States are AP subscribers, paying a fee to use AP material without being contributive members of the cooperative.
The author of the article is not an employee of the Huffington Post. She's an employee of the AP.
Please don't accuse me of quoting your liberal rag - I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole.
Morg
P.S. I'm not asking any buddies to edit your posts - but I do notice you have gotten some buddies of your own giving you rep.
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13.08.2009, 01:30
| | | | Re: How is America going to end?
Groan all you like, the evidence is there for all to see, he used my post and said that he didn't.
Just like he said that he took federal loans and then he didn't.
Just glad that he is nowhere in my neighborhood if it comes to - did you use that gun or you didn't? Not that reliable so far!
And Texaner wasn't it you on another thread who was the one who said that I should use the quotation procedure? Are you stiil reading up on the info that I initially posted about people know taking guns to the town hall meetings,yet saying I am vacuous?
Morgannon is now threatening to remove me from the thread- what's wrong - gun not enough to defend you now?
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13.08.2009, 01:32
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| | | Re: How is America going to end?
I feel like my dog must have felt when my parents and I got into a play fight. He didn't know who to defend, and used to end up barking and running in circles in frustration.
Nearly all the people who have participated in this train wreck of a thread are people I respect and like (with the exception of one mendacious lunatic, obviously), many of whom I know offline or via PM. To see you all beating each other up like this is frustrating, to say the least.
Could this thread possibly be closed, for the good of the forum, if no other reason?
The argument is clearly getting nowhere, the whole thing has turned irretrievably personal, and the thread is taking up bandwidth that would be better used to complain about people blocking escalators and pushing to get on the train at Zurich HB.
Kill it, please?
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13.08.2009, 01:36
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | Groan all you like, the evidence is there for all to see, he used my post and said that he didn't.
Just like he said that he took federal loans and then he didn't. Just glad that he is nowhere in my neighborhood if it comes to - did you use that gun or you didn't? Not that reliable so far!
And Texaner wasn't it you on another thread who was the one who said that I should use the quotation procedure? Are you stiil reading up on the info that I initially posted about people know taking guns to the town hall meetings,yet saying I am vacuous?
Morgannon is now threatening to remove me from the thread- what's wrong - gun not enough to defend you now? | | | | | And that's the straw that broke the camel's back Hoppy. I'll tolerate your opinions, but I won't tolerate personal attacks.
Texaner has always been very fair and unbiased, even groaning some of my posts. He's just trying to keep you coherent, which is near impossible.
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13.08.2009, 01:37
| | | | Re: How is America going to end?
Done DB!- I'm out, but mendacious I am not. I have nothing to lose by telling the truth. Prove any situation where I have not told the truth! You can PM me- as you have in the past. Viciously perceptive, yes I can be, when the situation calls for it.
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13.08.2009, 01:48
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| | | Re: How is America going to end?
Personally, I hate having threads closed. I DO like to have posters self policing. I actually find this discussion interesting...
And DB, you know you are one of my favorite posters.
fduvall | Quote: | |  | | | I feel like my dog must have felt when my parents and I got into a play fight. He didn't know who to defend, and used to end up barking and running in circles in frustration.
Nearly all the people who have participated in this train wreck of a thread are people I respect and like (with the exception of one mendacious lunatic, obviously), many of whom I know offline or via PM. To see you all beating each other up like this is frustrating, to say the least.
Could this thread possibly be closed, for the good of the forum, if no other reason?
The argument is clearly getting nowhere, the whole thing has turned irretrievably personal, and the thread is taking up bandwidth that would be better used to complain about people blocking escalators and pushing to get on the train at Zurich HB.
Kill it, please? | | | | | | 
13.08.2009, 09:05
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | I actually find this discussion interesting... | | | | | I thought it had potential but it's just turned into one American lunatic with an intractable position on a volatile issue refusing to consider the opinions of another American lunatic.
You can take that statement either way. It works for the pro- or anti- side alike. And at this point, the 2 main posters on this thread are almost indistinguishable in their frenzied tit-for-tat.
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13.08.2009, 10:43
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | You can PM me- as you have in the past. | | | | | For the record, I have never initiated an exchange of PMs with you. I used to respond to PMs that you sent me, but have stopped doing even that, especially since you decided to start using the email feature to get on my case outside the forum, too.
Just for the record, Hoppy.
Oh, and since the subject has been brought up, please stop sending me emails. It's a pain in the arse to find some incoherent nonsense from you in my inbox when I'm looking for news from my friends.
Nutter.
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13.08.2009, 11:07
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| | | Re: How is America going to end?
I stopped reading this thread for 1 day and it seems to have become a full out war (guns included) about Rep. This thread hasn't been derailed it's moved from trains to planes.
I think people need to remember that if you have the freedom to express your opinion so does everybody else (even if they are wrong  ). I enjoy debating with the likes of DB and we CLEARLY don't see eye to eye on the hunting/sport thing but that doesn't mean I don't respect him. In fact on a lot of other things our opinions are almost exactly the same. Maybe this whole thank and groan thing should be stopped on this forum if it's going to cause so much fighting?
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13.08.2009, 11:10
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| | | Re: How is America going to end? | Quote: | |  | | | Maybe this whole thank and groan thing should be stopped on this forum if it's going to cause so much fighting? | | | | | But it's fun! | 
13.08.2009, 11:10
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| | | Re: How is America going to end?
Pistols at dawn. | 
13.08.2009, 11:14
| | | | Re: How is America going to end?
Sorry people but this thread has become a train wreck and serves no further purpose. I'm closing it.
I suggest everyone take a cold shower now..
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