In the true Irish style, Irish voters once again get to vote on the Lisbon Treaty. For those who don't know, it was rejected last time.

How will the outcome of this referendum effect the European Union? Is it going to pass, or fail again? How, if at all, will it affect Switzerland?

Your thoughts?

how many times can they hold the vote if its a no again?

if its a yes can there be another vote? you know best out of 3,5,7,9.....999

I suppose it does not matter which way they vote anyway. there are rumours that the Czech Republic are going to reject it later anyway.

Remind me. How did the UK public vote again...?

There will be no third voting. But as it seems, more people are willing to say yes now.

Which is bad.

One of many alternative sources

http://euro-med.dk/?p=10745

http://euro-med.dk/?p=10836

I think it will be a yes vote. Irish econcomy is hit hard by the crisis. If Ireland votes no, the eurocrats will find a way (and make them pay eventually)...like they did in the Netherlands.

If Ireland votes yes, the political pressure on the Czech republic will be immense.

The difference is that this time around the Irish economy is in Dire straits, and the Eu is the biggest meal ticket in town. Its similar to Iceland (no offence Begga ) suddenly deciding that EU membership has its benefits.

Labour! UK is not Switzerland - just one chance every 4 years - not Sunday mornings every couple of months. Less paperwork. (and less say in things)

Every 5 years actually and the next 1 is due 2010 . Time to remove the blind man in westminster palais (to paraphrase Joe Strummer) methinks. I only wish Cameron would come clean on whether he intends to hold a referendum to ratify Lisbon or not.
I personally think the EU has run its course and has become bloated on its own self-importance and beaurocracy (sp?).

Very important day for Ireland and EU (and of course likes of Cech Rep). Alot of friends of mine in Ireland simply didn't understand the Treaty last time round (because they haven't even bother to read it............not sure they did this time either!).

So In the 'No' corner -
What it will come down to is whether Ireland is willing to give up its right to decide on eg setting own tax rates, minimum wage, to keep our military veto (gotta love the 'neutral' stance). If no vote is instigated then we would also keep our commissioner. Also, if the No vote goes through, Ireland is saying it can stand on its own 2 feet and giving EU the 2 fingers.............we would be playing a whole different ball game then (it ain't no powerhouse like Germany & France)!!


And In the 'Yes' corner -

Ireland have benefitted from being in the EU and the capital injection it has recieved. It should stay that way really.
I am for the changes in the voting in the Council of Ministers - it should be representative of the populations of countries, I am for a European President but that presidency moves around countries so while I believe it will help adhere policy making and unite, I do not believe it will put any republic or country's identity into question.
Most importantly there is an inherently corrupt system of government in Ireland (ok, ok like most small countries) with yet again increased emgiration and a "brain drain"...we need Europe!

All this said, I'm sure there is also something about a clause in the treaty that says Ireland can change the terms of the treaty at any point after we've signed up - so they could possibly change the terms of joining armies/minimum wages etc etc? If that clause is in there then it's a major loop hole.

And I'm spent!
I expect a hurl of abuse/opinions/objections right about.................now lol.

Von

How sad and upsetting it is to see most people only think about minimum wages and if they keep their seats in EU Organs.

This is of course thanks to the mass media spreading what they are told to.

Of course the ugly facts are not mentioned in the public TV channels, no, you have to dig it up on the internet.

The Re-introduction of the possibility of the death penalty seems to not touch people THAT MUCH.

Judicial Background for Re-introduction of Death Penalty in the EU

A new arms policy will also be effective.

As Foreign Minister Steinmeier confirmed in May, "with the Lisbon Treaty the ESDP (European Security and Defence Policy german-foreign-policy.com) will also enter a new phase". According to Steinmeier, France declared ESDP to become one of its "focal points" during its Council Presidency. This not only includes new arms projects ("additional transport and helicopter capacity"), Brussels will also "begin enhancing the EU's planning and leadership capabilities".

Forgot, speaking of wages:

In 2004, the EU issued a directive called the Bolkenstein Directive which proposed the country of origin principle - allowing Latvian workers to be brought to Ireland (for example) and applying the Latvian minimum wage. This was dropped after huge controversy, but it showed the mindset of the EU Commission and the EU Court is now implementing that directive on a case by case basis.

The country of origin principle is part of the Lisbon treaty.

How sad and upsetting it is to see most people only think about minimum wages and if they keep their seats in EU Organs.

This is of course thanks to the mass media spreading what they are told to.

The Re-introduction of the possibility of the death penalty seems to not touch people THAT MUCH.



Point taken.........I was completely unaware of the Death Penalty clause.........this tends to sway me massively now.

Unfortunate like you say that only by 'digging' on the internet that you might find anything highlighting this.

Von

I was most definitely in the No corner last time...and I havent been there and dont plan to live in Ireland for a while so I havent followed it this time around...but according to http://www.lisbontreaty.ie/

• Ireland will keep its own Commissioner
• Ireland will maintain control of its own tax rates
• Irish 'neutrality' will not be affected
• and other stuff

If the above is true, and Ireland is pretty screwed financially (so we're better off in than out)...then I'm not as opposed to it as before...

I hope they both reject it. Nothing like a few independent-thinkers bucking the herd-mentality and botching up the aspirations of the central planners.

Yeah, whatever. Ireland so needs Europe or it'll be back to the Brain Drain and the pessimism of standing in O'Connell Street waiting for the bus in the rain on a Friday evening in November. Which is glum...

To be fair, having another vote is not that big a deal I think. We've seen it before in the various divorce and abortion referendums. As some other posters have alluded to, at least the Irish people do get a vote.

Personally I hope the vote was a "YES". Granted there are elements of the treaty that are somewhat suspect, but overall the EU has been a positive force for Ireland. I think it helped drag Ireland kicking and screaming into the modern world, helped us dramatically improve the economy, social legislation (don't forget homosexuality was only decriminalised in the 90s), etc, etc.

I just hope the Irish people voted on an informed basis, and those who voted no, didn't vote no to give the clowns in government a bloody nose.

The Irish people have given a resounding 'yes' vote to the European Union's Lisbon Treaty, says Irish Prime Minister Brian Cowen.

BBC