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Old 06.12.2009, 00:28
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Knox case...

Have been following the Knox case...

The verdict has been announced and I can't help but feel completely twisted for all the guilty and innocent parties in this case.

I am still puzzling over this fact ... the police have not found any fingerprints of Knox or her ex-boyfriend at the crime scene, but it doesn't seem to play a part in the determination of the verdict...

Of course, many lawyers gave their views on it, mostly from the defendent's side...also on the legal system in Italy...

What are your view on this?
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  #2  
Old 06.12.2009, 00:33
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Re: Knox case...

It would seem that there is no conclusive evidence, but something tells me that the knox girl was involved. I just don't know what but she gives me a bad feeling. Nevertheless, if there was no evidence the veredict would seem biased.
I feel really sorry for the parents of the deceased, no veredict is going to bring their kid back home
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Old 06.12.2009, 00:40
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Re: Knox case...

Yes....
for the Kercher family...they have lost a girl...
for the Knox family...they have also lost a girl...
both in different ways...
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Old 06.12.2009, 01:32
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Re: Knox case...

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Have been following the Knox case...

The verdict has been announced and I can't help but feel completely twisted for all the guilty and innocent parties in this case.

I am still puzzling over this fact ... the police have not found any fingerprints of Knox or her ex-boyfriend at the crime scene, but it doesn't seem to play a part in the determination of the verdict...

Of course, many lawyers gave their views on it, mostly from the defendent's side...also on the legal system in Italy...

What are your view on this?
Yes, I thought there was something a bit odd about this. Knox's behaviour was strange, but that doesn't mean she's guilty. The rest of the evidence didn't seem conclusive. I think there's a strong possibility she (and he) did it, but from what I've read, it didn't seem like it was without reasonable doubt. Of course what we read is filtered, and we weren't in the courtroom.

I reckon an appeal stands a good chance.
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Old 06.12.2009, 01:51
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Re: Knox case...

I guess we will never know what really happened that fateful night...

I think that's tough for everyone involved...
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Old 06.12.2009, 02:40
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Re: Knox case...

I was watching the news last night and there was plenty of evidence to say she took part in the murder.
  • Knox's blood was mixed with the victims in the bathroom.
  • Knox and her boyfriend both had their mobiles turned off around the time of the murder.
  • Knox's DNA was found on what they think was the knife that killed Meredith Kercher.
  • And Knox was doing kart-wheels and hand-stands at the police station, while her boyfriend was being questioned about the murder.
  • And her alibi for the time of the murder turned out to be a lie (that her and her boyfriend downloaded a movie and then watched it at his place)
  • And her story kept changing again and again.
SO there was evidence to convict her..I agree that the Italian police could have handled the investigation MUCH better. But even if the physical evidence doesn't hold, why would an innocent person do kart-wheels while her boyfriend is being questioned for a murder, and innocent people don't keep changing their story, or lie about an alibi...Just doesn't add up.
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Old 06.12.2009, 12:13
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Re: Knox case...

I feel so sorry for everyone involved in this case. Obviously, the parents and family of the girl who was murdered get my ut-most sympathy, however, I can't help but feel sad for Amanda Knox, who has been accused of the murder too.

One stupid night of alcohol and drugs has robbed her of her most important years. There will be no career, no marriage or children and her family will suffer for the rest of their lives too. What a silly girl.
I don't know whether she did it or not. ( she probably can't remember either if she was so high on drugs!) I think you probably needed to be at the court case to hear ALL the evidence. I hope this will be a lesson to anyone thinking of going down the same path.

Amanda Knox and her ex-boyfriend have many years in their cells to regret this, It's a very sad case indeed for all concerned. I would be terrified of the consequences ahead and she's a very young girl, I really don't know how she will cope, especially without her family closeby.
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Old 06.12.2009, 13:04
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Re: Knox case...

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I was watching the news last night and there was plenty of evidence to say she took part in the murder.
  • Knox's blood was mixed with the victims in the bathroom.
  • Knox and her boyfriend both had their mobiles turned off around the time of the murder.
  • Knox's DNA was found on what they think was the knife that killed Meredith Kercher.
  • And Knox was doing kart-wheels and hand-stands at the police station, while her boyfriend was being questioned about the murder.
  • And her alibi for the time of the murder turned out to be a lie (that her and her boyfriend downloaded a movie and then watched it at his place)
  • And her story kept changing again and again.
SO there was evidence to convict her..I agree that the Italian police could have handled the investigation MUCH better. But even if the physical evidence doesn't hold, why would an innocent person do kart-wheels while her boyfriend is being questioned for a murder, and innocent people don't keep changing their story, or lie about an alibi...Just doesn't add up.
Yes, but points 2,4,5 and 6 don't actually *prove* she did it, they just make her behaviour look suspicious. This isn't enough to convict.

The hard evidence - the bathroom blood and the knife - are more convincing, but I'm not sure these are really proof. A kitchen knife could be expected to have the DNA of a housemate on it, whether or not she is the killer. The bathroom blood would seem to indicate that she was present at the time, or just after, the murder, but doesn't prove she did it. I'm not sure about the timing, presumably her defence made this point.

Don't get me wrong - she is quite likely to have been the murderer, but in a murder case "quite likely" isn't really enough.
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Old 06.12.2009, 13:32
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Re: Knox case...

Guilty. Anyone who blames an innocent man (black immigrant married with kids) and ruins his life with what are later exposed as lies has something to hide.

Takes from elsewhere

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I think it’s worth revisiting her many falsehoods for any new visitors to this board, so that they can get a clearer picture of the real strength of the case.

Some of Amanda’s vociferous supporters have claimed that Amanda only lied once - and that was because she was “smacked around” by the police, or put under pressure.

And that her confessions, in which she admitted to being at the cottage on the night of the murder, were thrown out by the Italian Supreme Court.

It doesn’t take a careful examination of the known facts to conclude that both these claims really are nonsense.

Amanda’s first known lie wasn’t to the police, but to her flatmate, Filomena, on 2 November, the day after Meredith’s murder.

Amanda phoned Filomena at 12.08 pm, and said she was worried about the front door being open and blood stains in the small bathroom.

Lie one. Amanda said she was going to call Raffaele, but according to Raffaele, Amanda had already returned to his apartment at 11.30 am, and then they had gone back to the cottage.

At 12.34 pm Amanda and Filomena spoke again. Filomena said, “We spoke to each other for the third time and she told me that the window in my room was broken and that my room was in a mess. At this point I asked her to call the police and she told me that she already had.”

Lie two. Amanda and Raffaele didn’t actually call the police until 12.51 pm.

The postal postal police unexpectedly turned up at the cottage at 12. 35 pm.

Lie three. Amanda and Raffael told the police that they had called the police and were waiting for them.

Lie four. Amanda told the postal police that Meredith always kept her door locked. Filomena strongly disagreed with her, and told the postal police the opposite was true.

Amanda and Raffaele were then taken in for questioning.

Lie five. They said they couldn’t remember most of what happened on the night of the murder, because they had smoked cannabis.

It is medically impossible for cannabis to cause such dramatic amnesia and there are no studies that have ever demonstrated that this is possible.

Long term use of cannabis may affect short term memory, which means that users might have difficulty recalling a telephone number. But it won’t wipe out whole chunks of an evening from their memory banks.

Lie six. Amanda accused Diya Lumumba of murdering Meredith at the cottage.

It’s true that two of Amanda’s such statements were thrown out by the Italian Supreme Court. However, Amanda repeated the accusation, in a note that she wrote to the police on 6 November.

This note was not thrown out by the Italian Supreme Court, and it was admitted as evidence.

Lies seven and eight. In her 6 November note Amanda claimed to have seen Diya Lumumba at the basketball court at Piazza Grimana; and outside her front door. He was actually at his bar.

Line nine. Amanda’s supporters claim that she confessed to a lesser role in Meredith’s murder, and blamed Diya Lumumba, because she had been “smacked around” or put under pressure by the police.

But the real reason she had to say she was at the cottage was because she was informed that Raffaele Sollecito was no longer providing her with an alibi.

Raffaele had been confronted with phone records, and was now claiming that she was not with him the whole evening, and that she had only returned at 1.00 am. Amanda did not attempt to refute Raffaele’s claim, but now admitted that she had been at the cottage.

The significance of this about-turn cannot be stressed enough.

(Incidentally, Raffaele was also claiming that he had lied, because he had believed Amanda’s version of what happened and not thought about the inconsistencies. He is acknowledging that Amanda’s version had inconsistencies.)

If it had been true that Amanda had been “smacked around” by the police during questioning, why haven’t her lawyers ever filed a complaint? It was very telling that Amanda dropped her allegation of being hit by the police at her recent court hearing, and instead just claimed she had been put under pressure.

There’s a world of difference between police brutality and being put under pressure. It wasn’t the first time that Amanda has made a false and malicious accusation, as Diya Lumumba knows only too well.

Lie ten. Amanda claimed to have slept in at Raffaele’s until the next morning. However, her mobile records show that this was not so. Amanda turned on her mobile at approximately at 5.32 am.

The only plausible explanation for Amanda’s deliberate and repeated lies? That she was involved in the murder of Meredith Kercher."
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Old 06.12.2009, 14:55
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Re: Knox case...

She actually a perfectly decent person who would never do such a thing and got caught in a situation where, despite her innocence, the evidence was such that the fair and just Italian legal system found her guilty of murder.

She was a really nasty piece of work who would do such a thing but got caught in a situation where, despite her innocence, the evidence was such that the fair and just Italian legal system found her guilty of murder.

She actually a perfectly decent person who would never do such a thing but, despite her innocence, the corrupt Italian legal system found her guilty anyway.

etc...

take your choice.

The chances are she is guilty. After all, a detailed police investigation and a trial found her guilty. Mostly Western legal systems seem to get it right. Of course it's a total tragedy when they get it wrong.
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  #11  
Old 07.12.2009, 17:23
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Re: Knox case...

There has been outcry here in the US with calls for a plea to to intervene. I couldn't help comparing the reaction to the British Nanny trial of Louise Woodward whom I believe was innocent and has since been exhonerated. With the Italian case I found the testimony given by Knox and boyfriend to be suspect, either they were too stoned to remember what happened or they thought that Sollecito's dad's contacts would get them off. Either way I tell my kids trust your instincts and don't tolerate bad behavior from others simply because they are part of the circle.
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Old 07.12.2009, 17:45
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Re: Knox case...

Don't forget 1 guy already admitted to being in the house at the time and went down for 30 years. I don't recall hearing him being a witness in this trial though.

Knox is a strange one, by all account a compuslive liar, her myspace / facebook saying apparently said she didn't drink, smoke, do drugs etc etc which we know just wasn't true.

Did she do the deed? no idea, I've no doubt she was there though, and must have encouraged it. Wasn't she also filmed during the trial writting it was all her boyfriend when it became obvious it wasn't going her way?

And who hires a PR firm when your being done for murder??

Strikes me as a nasty piece of work all round, spoilt little daddies girl who though she could get away with anything.
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Old 07.12.2009, 17:53
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Re: Knox case...

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Either way I tell my kids trust your instincts and don't tolerate bad behavior from others simply because they are part of the circle.
Yeah, you don't remember being a teen do you Hoppy? Status quo is what it is all about.

Your suggestion has nothing to do with this tragic event.
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Old 07.12.2009, 17:55
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Re: Knox case...

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And who hires a PR firm when your being done for murder??
Yes, that is strange. The whole thing is a huge tragedy that has changed the lives of several people including one young woman who had her life cut brutally short.
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Old 07.12.2009, 18:01
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Re: Knox case...

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Yes, but points 2,4,5 and 6 don't actually *prove* she did it, they just make her behaviour look suspicious. This isn't enough to convict.
...
Don't get me wrong - she is quite likely to have been the murderer, but in a murder case "quite likely" isn't really enough.
Yes, it is enough. It's called circumstantial evidence.

If one has enough pieces of consistent and coherent circumstantial evidence,
it can and sometimes does take things "beyond reasonable doubt", even in
a murder case.
.
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Old 07.12.2009, 18:11
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Re: Knox case...

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but in a murder case "quite likely" isn't really enough.
The jury thought it was
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Old 07.12.2009, 18:56
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Re: Knox case...

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Yeah, you don't remember being a teen do you Hoppy? Status quo is what it is all about.

Your suggestion has nothing to do with this tragic event.
I do remember being a teen, mine was particularly rough, I am pretty lucky to have survived. One thing I learned was don't do drugs or at least if someone is offering free drugs or drink see what effect it has on others first, you may be getting more than what you thought. I have had a teenager and have a teenager and I teach EBD teenagers as do two of my sisters. My sympathies are for the family of Meredith Kercher who seems like a sweet girl. Meredith had no traces of alcohol or drugs in her system, it seems like her crime was that she did not want to partake in Knox's sex games. She was a bright student.

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Last night Ms Kercher’s sister, Stephanie, said that Meredith had intended to come home this weekend “with a suitcase laden with chocolates” for her mother’s birthday. She added: “Meredith touched the lives of everyone she met with her infectious, upbeat personality, smile and sense of humour.”
I made my daughter read up on the trial. At least she is bright enough to realize that 'status quo' is not what it is all about
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Old 07.12.2009, 20:27
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Re: Knox case...

I kept reading different newspaper reports on this case...

I think it's really really tragic what has happened....

My sis had a roommate...a crazy one...whom she tolerated and at the end, I must say she was really happy when the girl left because she didn't make the results...

I don't know this family (Kercher), but I feel so much pain for them...

I never did drugs....it was something I witnessed enough to avoid them...
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Old 07.12.2009, 20:29
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Re: Knox case...

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Yeah, you don't remember being a teen do you Hoppy? Status quo is what it is all about...
Maybe the way (or place) you were brought up it was. Not true everywhere.

I visited a friend in San Francisco for a month, when I was 16. I was frankly stunned by how my friend (and his friends) were totally obsessed with what their peers thought about how they dressed, what films they saw, who they hung around with...

Where I came from, their were people like that. Very much in the minority, and largely ignored.
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Old 03.10.2011, 23:09
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Re: Knox case...

Amanda Knox wins Meredith Kercher murder appeal
3 October 2011 Last updated at 20:05 GMT

Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito have been acquitted of the murder of UK student Meredith Kercher following a successful appeal in Perugia, Italy.

Miss Knox, 24, and her ex-boyfriend Mr Sollecito, 27, had spent nearly four years in jail since they were convicted of killing of the 21-year-old, from Coulsdon, south London, in 2007.

American Miss Knox sobbed as the judge Claudio Pratillo Hellmann said the pair would walk free from court.

There were protests outside the court.

Earlier, Miss Knox, who is serving 26 years in jail for the killing, was given a final chance to state her case in a personal statement and she told a packed courtroom she was "paying with her life".

Tearful, and speaking in fluent Italian, the American said: "I did not kill, I did not rape, I did not steal. I was not there."

She added: "I want to go back home. I want to go back to my life. I don't want to be punished. I don't want my life and my future to be taken away for something I didn't do because I am innocent."

Her ex-boyfriend Mr Sollecito, who was given a 25-year term, told the court in his statement that he was in a "nightmare" and said the claims against him were "totally untrue".

Ahead of the verdict, Miss Kercher's family, who are in Perugia for the decision, said they would always find it difficult to forgive her killers.murder appeal

Prosecutors had said they would appeal if the verdict is overturned. They had called for Miss Knox and Mr Sollecito's sentences to be increased to life in prison.

Miss Kercher had been sharing a cottage in Perugia with Miss Knox, who is originally from Seattle, during a year abroad from Leeds University when she was murdered.

Prosecutors said she was killed in a brutal sex game which went wrong. Her throat had been slit and she had been sexually assaulted.

A third person - Rudy Guede, 24 - was also convicted of Miss Kercher's murder in a separate trial and was sentenced to 30 years in prison.

His conviction was upheld on appeal but his sentence reduced to 16 years.

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