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  #21  
Old 12.04.2012, 15:33
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

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Hello Samuel

Welcome to the crazy world of the Swiss jobs market. 3% unemployment but finding a job can be much harder than in England with 9% unemployment.

The problem is that you are not the only one who wants to work here.

On the upside IT is set to expand in Switzerland and has fantastic long-term prospects.

http://www.20min.ch/finance/news/story/15242308

I have been in Switzerland for seven years and have found a few jobs in this time. Here are a few things that are important for employers.

Language skills: Some companies just want English skills (at the university, Novartis or maybe at a bank) Some demand a high level of spoken and written German or French. Some customer service sectors demand native Swiss German (The companies want to sell themselves as a Swiss product) this may include IT support. Find out what the requirement is for your job area.

Visa requirements: Swiss nationals are considered first, then people with C-permits, then people with B-permits and most companies require more thanan L-permit. Some companies will help you to get a permit.

Qualifications: Many employers understand the value of Swiss qualifications but not of foreign qualifications which are an unknown quantity for them. I have been refused a job on the grounds of not having anapprenticeship although my degree covered every aspect of the apprenticeship qualification and more.

References: Even if you only work for someone in Switzerland for a short time you can get a written reference from them. This will improve your chances.

I always ask why a company has rejected my application and badger them until I get an answer. Each time I learn and can develop through the experience. One company said " Your spoken German's not good enough"so I did an intensive German course and applied again and got the job . The best way is to phone them and ask them for some feedback to aid your personal development. They will be more honest on the phone than in an email.

I think you have three main options:

-Get an entry level IT job here in Switzerland (may be very difficult)
-Get an entry level IT job in the UK and return to Switzerland in a few years with experience and much better job prospects.
-Get any job you can find and then get a qualification that leads to a specific job. (or, in the worst case the other way round)

I hope this helps

William
Yeah this was my plan, it was to try and find something in IT the hardest I could, however on the sidelines working on applying for factories or bars. I want to then study the job market a bit more, I have noticed in IT they want SAP based experience so if I get a job in the near future I can take a course in that, and also yes thats what I want to do, attend a German course most definitely.

I mostly know what path I have to take I just need a little push in the right direction, or the other way round with people possibly giving them a push in my direction!


I'm very friendly, very willing and it's just a matter of time I hope. I'm applying for jobs all around the place, however I thought I would come here to a live community to ask for help because to be honest those job portals really, I have lost confidence in them.

Thank you for your reply
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  #22  
Old 12.04.2012, 18:22
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

(You wrote previously the link was broken)

I think you might not be getting interviews as people do not understand what a BTech is and what level of study it represents.

Maybe you should take your BTEC National Diploma here, and ask them where you can get it accredited, what I mean is, who in Switzerland can give you an equivalent Swiss certificate, or explain in German what level you have attained.

Berufsinformationszentrum BIZ der Berufs-, Studien und-Laufbahnberatung St. Gallen

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  #23  
Old 13.04.2012, 00:03
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

Related thread,

My experience finding an IT job in Switzerland
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  #24  
Old 13.04.2012, 02:04
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

"Studied IT" is a bit vague, and won't get you a job here as a non-Swiss. The bottom line is that you have to have a skill that employers want.

You sound like a good chap who wants to get on, but always remember that employers in the private sector are not charities. They will employ people who can benefit their business. They are extremely unlikely to employ you just to train you up at their expense (after which you might jump ship to a competitor).

So my advice would be -- stop thinking in terms of "please train me, I'm very obedient". Employers don't give a toss about that anymore. What they are interested in ,and what impresses them, is a man or woman who comes to them and offers them something that will improve their business and increase their profits. You have to put yourself in front of them on that basis.

Ask not what your employer can do for you -- ask what can you do for your employer.

Good luck
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  #25  
Old 13.04.2012, 02:54
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

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Yes I have a BTEC National Diploma for It Practioners at an "Merit,Merit,Merit" which in UK terms is worth 240 UCAS points.

Would they recognise that if I put scans in the CV? I'm hoping so but if I were to get it recognised what format would it be in? (The link is broken on my browser)

Thank You for your reply.
Honestly: I am German and I do not understand a word of what you just wrote - so I guess that all others you applied did not get what to make out of your education either.

2 years is frankly pretty short - an IT related apprenticeship in Switzerland or Germany takes three... and just qualifies for lower end jobs. Anything one "studies" here takes longer and ends with a degree.

Hitrates for applications are very low right now, but you are eager and apparently willing to work for a low salary. So I guess that the real problem is that people do not understand your CV. To give you an example: As a German, I turned 20 just before I STARTED university (cause we had 13 yrs of secondary education, one year service and I am born in July...). So if you apply, people don't get what you have on offer.

My suggestion:
a) describe it in detail. A Scan will not help.
b) apply for paid internships. They give you some first work experience and are more often than not the kick-start to score a job. So just search the job databases you surely are already looking at for "Praktikum". Extend your search for entry level positions and internships on student websites like students.ch.

Success.
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  #26  
Old 13.04.2012, 14:48
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

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"Studied IT" is a bit vague, and won't get you a job here as a non-Swiss. The bottom line is that you have to have a skill that employers want.

You sound like a good chap who wants to get on, but always remember that employers in the private sector are not charities. They will employ people who can benefit their business. They are extremely unlikely to employ you just to train you up at their expense (after which you might jump ship to a competitor).

So my advice would be -- stop thinking in terms of "please train me, I'm very obedient". Employers don't give a toss about that anymore. What they are interested in ,and what impresses them, is a man or woman who comes to them and offers them something that will improve their business and increase their profits. You have to put yourself in front of them on that basis.

Ask not what your employer can do for you -- ask what can you do for your employer.

Good luck
I thank you for your information and I totally understand. I however am willing to learn anything in my department as my btec national diploma was very general it ranged from games programming, databases and computer architecture. This is the next step and I have a little bit more than the basics in each of the subject and the next path for me is that I make my chosen path more specific, so specific in fact that if a company would allow me to train up with them I would respect that and stay with them for a while to come. When I talked about experience in the future I meant at least possibly 7 years down the line because to be honest I would just love to work in an office or do something IT related and refine my experience and my skills as a proffesional.

Thank you for your post
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  #27  
Old 13.04.2012, 14:51
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

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Honestly: I am German and I do not understand a word of what you just wrote - so I guess that all others you applied did not get what to make out of your education either.

2 years is frankly pretty short - an IT related apprenticeship in Switzerland or Germany takes three... and just qualifies for lower end jobs. Anything one "studies" here takes longer and ends with a degree.

Hitrates for applications are very low right now, but you are eager and apparently willing to work for a low salary. So I guess that the real problem is that people do not understand your CV. To give you an example: As a German, I turned 20 just before I STARTED university (cause we had 13 yrs of secondary education, one year service and I am born in July...). So if you apply, people don't get what you have on offer.

My suggestion:
a) describe it in detail. A Scan will not help.
b) apply for paid internships. They give you some first work experience and are more often than not the kick-start to score a job. So just search the job databases you surely are already looking at for "Praktikum". Extend your search for entry level positions and internships on student websites like students.ch.

Success.
Thank you for your tips, I will take them into consideration and I can definitely see your point from the whole post. I am looking into working in a factory for a few month, possibly half a year or more and attend courses in Switzerland , first and foremost German courses and then after that IT courses which will allow me to get some Swiss qualifications and get some experience with programming languages or different programs. Obviously then my current qualifications after attending these courses would then help me considerably in getting a job in my preferred area.

Thank you for your post
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  #28  
Old 13.04.2012, 16:37
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

Also , pretty much everyone that I have spoken to said that networking is the best way to get a job. That's one of the main reasons why I came to this forum to get myself out there and known a little bit. If anyone knows of or is interested in getting to know me a bit more or has a friend which is interested in hiring someone I would be more than willing to meet up and socialise.

Also if anyone knows about any jobs which would fit my description or would help me a little bit, I would very much appreciate it.

I am again applying like hot cakes and it is a little bit rewarding or alleviates stress when I can talk to people about these things. If you want to add me on Gmail.

"formeraircadet@gmail.com"
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  #29  
Old 13.04.2012, 20:41
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

Good attitude. Hope you get something sorted out. As someone said earlier on, if you've applied for hundreds of jobs without getting much of a response, you need to rethink your strategy, as this obviously isn't having the desired effect.
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Old 13.04.2012, 21:04
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

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Good attitude. Hope you get something sorted out. As someone said earlier on, if you've applied for hundreds of jobs without getting much of a response, you need to rethink your strategy, as this obviously isn't having the desired effect.
I understand what you are saying. Since the last time I was here I have majorly improved my CV and hopefully this will have an improvement. Also a new phone contract allows me to actually call the representatives that are associated with the job opening and can converse with them which could then lead to them having a rough idea about my motivational level.

Thank you for your post.
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  #31  
Old 16.04.2012, 15:23
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

It has been nearly a week now and I have not managed to find any work. I know it's only a week, however any help would be most appreciated!


Thank you in advance
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  #32  
Old 16.04.2012, 15:34
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

Hi Samuel and welcome,

I just want to say what ever you do dont give up on the search. It took me 2 years to get a job over here in Switzerland and in the end i had to change my choice of work but it was worth it.

So good luck adn keep your chin up mate.
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Old 16.04.2012, 15:36
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

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Hi Samuel and welcome,

I just want to say what ever you do dont give up on the search. It took me 2 years to get a job over here in Switzerland and in the end i had to change my choice of work but it was worth it.

So good luck adn keep your chin up mate.
Thankyou very much.

I am very much looking to change my line of work just to get something over here I am now starting to apply to factories to get just something!
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Old 16.04.2012, 15:41
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

i did all that samuel and in the end found a job that was advertised with little german needed, that was enough for me to apply, after i sent off my CV and letter i read the advert and it was for kindergarten work, so i thought i can do that and im still there. keep looking
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  #35  
Old 17.04.2012, 03:06
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Re: Take a read, see what you think! :)

Ok, I am not living in Switzerland anymore, but getting some idea how the other side of the application process works, might be helpful: I am running a team of IT specialists. I know that everyone claims to be a specialist these days, but we are a consultancy and can only make money if we kow more than the customer... so I am looking for experienced staff with a certain skill set. I am able to write and explain exactly what I am looking for in the job ad. For some reason does my inbox gets flooded with CVs that have absolutely zero work experience, zero skills in the niche I asked for but all are full of drivel on "how eager I am to learn". Sure... if I was looking for a junior position, I'd invite you and the lower salary would in exchange get you a on the job training... but if I am looking for experienced staff are these applicants only wasting my time. Chance to get an interview: Zero.

The difference between you and these applicants is that they all have university degrees (I had several masters and even a Phd in engineering among them...) and are looking for a beginners job. You are 19 without work experience or higher education (as far as I understood the education fo yours). I do not think you have any chance for the regular job ads. If somebody is looking for a person who can from day one perform in a company are you without experience simply a too high risk no matter how motivated or cheap you are.
Get yourself some 6 month internship - they typically pay between 2-3k CHF and in return get you some experience and reference letter. Then you can start looing for a junior position.
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