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Old 22.11.2012, 10:07
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To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Hello all my fellow EF'ers!

I hope everyone is having a great week and getting ready for a better weekend!

My husband and I presently live in Zug with our 5 month old daughter and absolutely love it here. Just as we are settling in (making friends, gaining familiarity with the area etc) my husband has been offered a new position in Schaffhausen and we are at a crossroads as to move or not to move? Financially the move would afford us a better savings plan (or spending one!). But now we have a baby there are more elements to consider!

I would be greatful if anyone could shed some light on queries I as a first time mom may have!

I see there is an international play group running in schaffhausen - is it still in operation? Are there monthly annual fees?

Could anyone recommend an English speaking Pediatrician in the area?

Do you have mütter und väterberatung? If so, do the healthcare workers midwives speak English?

In general is it easy to find medical staff (doctors, gyn, etc) that speak English

Would there be a large international expat community in the area? I know here in Zug we have been spoiled with this (25% of the population are expats) its easy to see people speaking English on the streets, in shops etc

I feel terrible asking for everything in "English" but the reality is I need to feel comfortable in the short term transitioning as I'm still adapting to being a first time mom! With my husband probably working long hours and no family nearby it would be essential I could build a support network and make friends easily to make the transition worthwhile!

I have had a look through the existing threads on the area so far regarding housing etc, I guess these were my initial worries that I couldn't find exact answers to! ( mostly revolving around the baby!)

Thanks guys for any help you can give, even pointing me in the right direction for info!

Have a great day!
T
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Old 22.11.2012, 10:38
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

I would move.. you have a 5 month old daughter so it's easy to move now. Once she is in school/nursery, you will not be able to move so easily.

I would take the better job with the increase in pay - for your future family life it is important, is it not? You will soon settle and make friends again.. Schaffhausen has its fair share of expats - Unilever is a main employer there. There is also an international school close by in Winterthur

You will also find quite a few Mums and baby morning/afternoon groups in WAC in Uster which is not so far away. A really good place to go to meet people.
My son went to the after school lessons there when he was 4 - really good.

I think it's a lovely part of the world around Schaffhausen, and being close to Germany has its advantages too.

EDIT: sorry, didn't realise this was in Intros. Welcome to the Forum

Last edited by Swisstree; 22.11.2012 at 10:41. Reason: added text
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Old 22.11.2012, 11:56
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Hello and welcome.

I just moved to Schaffhausen recently from Ireland and I found this town really nice and welcoming. My company have provided me with a list of English speaking doctors in the proximities of Schaffhausen which I can share with you if you send me a PM.
I do not have a child however I have been told by my relocation consultant, who has 2, that here is very safe and that there are very good schools including the International one in town.
There are a lot of expat, including many of my colleagues who have families and more will arrive here in January.
At the expat meeting we had recently there were other mums that just moved here so it should not be difficult for you to meet new people.
There is always some expat activity and if not there is Winterthur around the corner.
In some shops in town they speak English but in other they don't. I don't speak German at the moment but I manage to sort things out as people are generally very kind and polite.
The other advantage is that you are very close to the German border
Good luck
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Old 22.11.2012, 15:19
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

DO IT !!!!!!

schaffhausen is a beautiful brilliant place to live, lots of expats and everything you need from shops to cinemas to swimming pools etc etc, lovely place to bring up kids...........
in shops, german is spoken but if you ask the assistants, most of them speak some english, enough to be understood anyway and they always seem to be very helpful. most docs in CH speak english, the same goes for SH too i should think. there are several language schools to get you started,and a couple of expat grou ps that meet socially.

come over and wander round the town, its very pretty with its lights and there is a samiclaus market on 1st and 2nd dec in the old town......
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Old 22.11.2012, 15:34
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

I also agree with what's been said. I don't have a kid myself, but lots of my colleagues (I work for an international company) do - and as far as I know there are several spielgruppe, as well as some daycare option in english and of course the international school in town.

I don't know about pediatrician, but I have been living here for 2 years and I found several english speaking doctors (orthopedic, general doctor, OB, physiotherapist as well as specialized sport massage therapist, etc). Even some of the nurses at the hospital and most doctor there speak english quite ok (I had my fair share of Notfall visits and always managed).

The international community is not so small, but maybe not so easy to find or visible as in Zug. There are plenty of expats in town, maybe we don't have a lot of organized expat activities advertised, but I am sure you'll be able to make friends and meet some people (thou you may have to take the initiative and organize something) and I have seen a lot of posts for Moms to be or new moms or playdates in the area.

We moved here 2 years ago because we love it, it's a small town but it still offers enough to expats, kids grow up in a nice environment (lots of schools, friendly people, nice infrastructure) and everything is really really close.

Hope this helps,
ValeC
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Old 23.11.2012, 06:50
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

I assume your husband continues to work in Zug.

What you save you will spend in travelling costs, not to mention the time wasted so your husband will have even less time with your daughter, is that really worth the saving you may make.....?
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Old 25.11.2012, 09:57
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Thank you everyone for your wonderful replies!!

I just returned from Ireland yesterday and we took a quick spin up to schaffhausen to have a look around. It was late and dark so it was hard to get a true feeling for the place but the few people we did meet seemed wonderfully welcoming! Then you guys also give a great impression of the area and have me realizing that making friendships will probably be easier than ever now we have a baby!!

I'm looking at rental properties on the usual sites comparis, immo etc. from what I see breite seems to be a popular choice but I cannot find any availability there...? (it also seems to be a very old area with very few modern areas) would anyone be able to suggest any other areas with modern buildings within walking distance to the town of schaffhausen. Surrounding villages are also a possibility within a 15 minute train ride I know neuhausen is an option are there another's within this proximity (it's hard to tell from the map!).

Again thank you so much for all of the responses! If we move there in the new year maybe I can thank you with a cup of coffee or glass of wine/beer/or choice of poison!

Have a great Sunday!

T

Oh one last question could anyone let us know the rate of tax in Schaffhausen, I heard it was suppose to lower to compete with Zug for international investment did this happen?
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Old 25.11.2012, 10:14
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

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Oh one last question could anyone let us know the rate of tax in Schaffhausen, I heard it was suppose to lower to compete with Zug for international investment did this happen?
Income taxes in Schaffhausen are high; as you are browsing on Homegate, click on the 'Steuerrechner' to compare areas.

To give you an idea according to the Steuerrechner: On normal taxation at an income of CHF 120,000, married, 1 child, no religion one would pay ca. 14,000 in Zug and 31,000 in Schaffhausen. If taxed at source, for the same scenario one would pay ca, 4100 in ZG and ca. 11,000 in SH.


ETA:

I just put the same scenario into Comparis, and came up with very different figures for Schaffhausen. For normal taxation, Comparis gives ca. 14,000 for Zug and 23,000 in Schaffhausen, on Quellensteuer in ZG 3300 and 11,000 in SH. I was surprised by the difference so I looked for a calculator from Schaffhausen itself:

http://steuerrechner.sh.ch/steuernnat/calculateTax

Which comes up with 32,000 under normal taxation.

Anyway, play around with the calculators for your own situtation - and if unsure, ask a professional or your bank for an estimate.

Last edited by meloncollie; 25.11.2012 at 12:31.
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Old 25.11.2012, 11:03
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

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Income taxes in Schaffhausen are high; as you are browsing on Homegate, click on the 'Steuerrechner' to compare areas.
That's correct, but the lower rents should compensate for that. It's important to consider both.

You could also look at villages near Schaffhausen like Uhwiesen, Dachsen, Benken & Flurlingen. They're in Canton Zurich, so taxes will be lower (& rents higher). These have all had building projects ongoing over the last few years, so there'll be modern properties. Within Schaffhausen, areas like Buchthalen, Gruben, Herblingen & Schweizerbild (last two are further out, but have good bus services into Schaffhausen) have all had new development too.
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Old 25.11.2012, 11:50
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

I live in Feuerthalen in a very modern and very pretty apartment. Feuerthalen is in Canton Zurich but in walking distance from Schaffhausen so the tax rates is considerably cheaper but not sure if it is as low as Zug.

Please note that in my apt block you cannot leave your rental during November , December and January so this is probably the reason why you are not seeing any availability on the web. If your husband is changing job maybe is new company can provide him with a relocation consultant? My company did also to colleagues that moved from a different office in Switzerland. They are very good on finding rental accommodation.
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Old 25.11.2012, 12:32
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

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I live in Feuerthalen in a very modern and very pretty apartment. Feuerthalen is in Canton Zurich but in walking distance from Schaffhausen so the tax rates is considerably cheaper but not sure if it is as low as Zug.

Please note that in my apt block you cannot leave your rental during November , December and January so this is probably the reason why you are not seeing any availability on the web. If your husband is changing job maybe is new company can provide him with a relocation consultant? My company did also to colleagues that moved from a different office in Switzerland. They are very good on finding rental accommodation.
What's your question? I don't fully understand your post.
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Old 25.11.2012, 13:38
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

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My husband and I presently live in Zug with our 5 month old daughter and absolutely love it here. Just as we are settling in (making friends, gaining familiarity with the area etc) my husband has been offered a new position in Schaffhausen and we are at a crossroads as to move or not to move? Financially the move would afford us a better savings plan (or spending one!).
Taxes are MUCH higher in Schaffhausen than in Zug, your husband would need a huge salary increase for your family to be financially better off in SH.
See meloncollie's post below.


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Would there be a large international expat community in the area? I know here in Zug we have been spoiled with this (25% of the population are expats) its easy to see people speaking English on the streets, in shops etc
You won't find any other town in Switzerland with a comparable English speaking community as in Zug.

In Schaffhausen the English expats are invisible. I have been often in Schaffhausen, can't remember I have ever heard anyone speaking English.
You will have to learn the local language, the sooner the better.


Further to your criteria, I think Zug is the better choice.
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Old 25.11.2012, 13:46
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Myself I would choose Schaffhausen though.
Even if I had to pay the triple amount of taxes compared to Zug.

Imo Zug is probably the most soulless, pretentious village in Switzerland, due to its recent expansion and English speaking parallel society - I wouldn't want to live there for 0 taxes...
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Old 25.11.2012, 14:15
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

if the financial factor is an important consideration, i suggest you take advice on this as the tax difference really depends on how much you are earning etc. and also impacted by rent e.g. a few years ago, i rented a 4 bed flat for 1600 pcm and then a 5.5 room house for 2500 pcm. i don't know much about zug property market, but suspect that you would pay a lot more there.

also, if you are earning lots, i saw that taxes in schaffhausen became cheaper than parts of zurich once you were earning over 350k or so (single, no kids).

again, really depends on circumstances.

lastly, i'd say that schaffhausen is a great place to live and work and deserves its title as the best city in switzerland.
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Old 25.11.2012, 14:35
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

We've been in Stetten, about a 10 minute drive from the Schaffhausen city center for almost a year now, and I have to say that we love it . Schaffhausen is nice because there are a fair amount of English-speaking ex-pats due to the various international companies (Unilever, Citrix, John Deere, etc.), but not so many that I'm missing out on the culture of Switzerland. The city of Schaffhausen is cute, has decent shopping, and is only a 10 minute drive to Jestetten, Germany for groceries, DM, and an apothecary.

There is a wonderful English-speaking pediatrician in town, and a lot of the families from the International school use him. My family (OH, myself, 4 y.o., and 7 y.o.) use a really terrific family practice physician, also English-speaking.

Our 7 y.o. attends the International School and our 4 y.o. attends local kindergarten. We've been welcomed with open arms by the parents at each school.

My experience with the locals in shops and elsewhere is that they'll want to practice their English with you as soon as they find out you don't know much German. The folks I've come across who don't know English have all been very willing to try to help me--usually with us both miming what we need

Let me know if you'd like to come out to our house. I'm more than willing to answer any questions you might have. And, welcome to the forum!!!
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Old 25.11.2012, 15:02
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Wow, thank you for all the super fast replies! You guys are fantastic!

Meloncollie, your indication for tax (we checked homegate) shows that there will be a HUGE increase in tax, so the initial financial pull is probably not as glamorous as we originally thought!

You are all right in relation to lower living cost apartment rental food shopping (Germany) but I'm not sure yet if we would be able to check that off against the tax loss.

Schaffhausen for sure seems like such a wonderful place with many kind and friendly people but so is Zug (meli23 I'm so sorry you got such a terrible impression of the village, it's actually quite a wonderful place to live with the locals being more than friendly and people far less pretentious than Zurich (although you can meet a few!!) if you're ever in zug again (and we do not move) give me a shout and hopefully I can show you some of the nicer elements to the village! ). The cost of day to day life is probably a bit higher but after doing some taxation comparisons I guess it levels the balance!

Well now we need to add up the pros and cons of both options and come to a decision. Thank you once again for all of your wonderful comments which have really help highlight many critical point to us!

Have a wonderful Sunday!
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Old 25.11.2012, 16:12
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Would you have to move, though?

Zug to Schaffhausen is about an hour and twenty minute drive; the train is about the same time, maybe a bit more. Would living in ZG and working in ZH be an option?
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Old 26.11.2012, 09:46
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

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What's your question? I don't fully understand your post.
It was not a question I was just providing a suggestion to MommaT regarding her possible move to Schaffhausen. Apologies if it was not clear
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Old 26.11.2012, 13:51
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Zug is much better located than Schaffhausen for travelling to other parts of Switzerland, it is also quicker to get to Zurich.

Yes, Schaffhausen is closer to Germany but the current strength of the CHF won't last forever.
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Old 09.12.2012, 22:03
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Re: To move or not to move to Schaffhausen - all info greatly appreciated!

Schaffhausen is very good. I lived there for almost a year (now based in Amsterdam). You really need some basic or tourist German. There are some good language schools in the area. There is a reasonably large expat community. Try www.crackerjacks.ch . It is not like living in a city. But it is a big town. Expensive like all places in CH. As you might know already, Swiss people are a little reserved at first, and it takes a while to "break in" to the local community. Sport was the one for me. I joined Ruderclub Schaffhausen. So have a "break in" strategy.
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