hello again,
i need to ask something..
see i adobted recently a dobermann and i have more enemies than ever in my life.
they all avoid us like hell,also when he was only 4 months ..puppy!
why there is a war with dogs?
they look at us and their face is like we just got out from the resident evil movie! i mean dobermanns in movies are actors,right? i don t think that if i get a german shepherd he will find drugs and catch criminals like in K-9 movie! or that he will not get aggressive with the right training. i had dogs before with no particural breed..homeless dogs. they all act the same.they run, they play,they fight to mate, they bark, they bite..
as for pitbulls i know the story different: police had problems with them.. not for killing people but because drug dealers used them to transport drugs and of course nobody could get them out of their necklace. so they band them.
when every day in the newspapers men kill, rape,fight and steal and they are not "band" how come whole breeds are with one deadly attack every 3 months globally? is it really the dogs we should worry about? or our own violence?

please give me your answers and as many arguments as you can..
please..

Raise a happy, healthy, very well trained dog & don't worry how others look at you. A well trained, well behaved dog will go a long way to making people understand a bit more and be more tolerant about big dogs.

thx.. you are sure right my friend but when they all avoid us how can i make him socialized with other dogs?
when they are afraid of him from the age of 4 months that he is a baby i think it s impossible that later they will let him play with their dogs.

so finally they will creat what they are afraid of..
he will hate dogs and i m really worried.

he is so isolated here..

You should have bought a Dachshund, everybody loves them little things. Since they do look alike just get your dog a t-shirt made for him that reads:

World's Tallest Dachshund



Nobody will be the wiser..

It is nieave, not to say downright stupid, to walk round with a dog that is a from a breed that is known killer of children and wonder why earn yourself enemies and people avoid you. I would.

I wonder why anyone would want a dog that will grow to the size of a donkey and when enraged would be impossible for grown man to control. Is this some sort of psychological inadequacy in their owners?

I had a friend in England that had a chocolate Doberman it was the most softest dog you could of met never bit anybody you could do what you wanted and it would never groawl at you it was a sad day when she died. I have a friend here, and it`s her husbands Doberman (he says the dogs as to stay) the dog as bitten her i don`t know how many times not bad bites where she needs to go to hospital,but still deep enough to cut the skin i make her lock the dog in the kitchen when i go for coffee as i do not want myself, or my children getting bitten. I have to point out to the op that pittbulls DO kill children.

Manuela,

I've been trying to stay out of this, and the 'Fight dog' thread, but...

Sadly, we live in an increasingly intolerant society, where people are ready to believe the media hype surrounding dogs.

After the death of the poor child in Oberglatt - a terrible, horrible tragedy, one that should never have happened - but one due entirely to one bad individual, a known criminal who had abused his dogs - the Blick started an anti-dog witch hunt, whipping up public hysteria and tarring all dog owners with the same brush. People, whether due to inexperience or lack of knowledge, tend to accept statements uncritically if repeated often enough. Our opportunistic politicians jumped on the band wagon, and dogs are now the villian du jour.

Some people here are genuinely afraid of dogs. That is understandable, and should be respected.

Some are afraid of all the nebulous threats 'out there', and dogs are an easy focus for those fears.

Some, sadly, see this as an opportunity to hold power over others - by threatening your dog, I can control you.

It's part of the general 'us vs. them' that our society has degenerated into.

It's very, very sad.

As dog owners, we have to protect our dogs. In today's society, that means understanding and complying with laws and social norms, doing what we can to allay people's fear by ensuring our dogs are well trained, well socialized, well behaved, and under control at all times.

As for socializating your pup, I would suggest you get in touch with the Dobermann Club. I see you are in Liechtenstein, I couldn't find a group in FL, but perhaps you could travel to one of the Swiss clubs and get involved with their activities?

http://www.dobermannclub.ch/de/default.htm

Or, join a general training club or IG/dog Verein near you. It is a good way to socialize your dog in a safe environment. I take my dogs to training classes, agility, Familienhund, HTM. Not only for the training, but more importantly for the socialization. It really doesn't matter what the activity is, the fact that my dogs are with others, learning and doing something enjoyable is what counts.

Concentrate on being the best possible dog owner you can be, on respecting and understanding others, on practicing good ownership etiquette, and make sure your dog is a good ambassador for his breed. There are a few dobie owners on this forum - perhaps you could meet up with some of them?

---

For the record, I'd like to point out that I've known a fair few dobermanns - and they are lovely dogs. Gentle, friendly, good natured loyal friends. And the dobermann owners (and owners of the other listed breeds) I know, aware of public misconceptions, work very hard at training and socialization. Their dogs tend to be among the best trained and best behaved around.

Breed has little to do with it; training and socialization are important, but responsible ownership is the root issue.

-----

This is one of those situations where it seems unlikely that the two sides will ever understand each other. But, instead of turning this into a battle, instead of trying to eliminate certain breeds of dogs (all dogs, as some wish) there is an easy solution to meet the needs of dog owners and anti-dog folk alike: Dog parks.

I understand why people who are uneasy around dogs do not like them running off lead. However, dogs do need off lead exercise - something very few tiny Swiss gardens afford. And we dog owners are tax payers too - we should have the same right to enjoy the public lands we pay for as non dog owners do. The problem here in Switzerland is that that we are all trying to share the same (small) space.

In my home town (the Chicagoland area) they have come up with a solution that works well for all. We have strict leash laws - dog must be on lead in public places. BUT we also have wonderful dog parks, fully and securely fenced, where dogs are allowed to run and play together to their hearts content without encountering (or bothering) anyone who in uncomfortable around dogs. People comply with the leash laws where they apply because we have an alternative that meets our needs.

And everybody is happy, dog owners and dog haters alike. A good compromise, methinks.

I just wish we had something similar here.

This shows exactly how much you know about dogs, my friends have had staffs, boxers, dobermans and st bernard's. Like WTF are you on about? All have been gentle well mannered dogs and under control.

It's down to the owner to train the dog correctly, I remember my mates children wrestling with a fully grown st bernard. Stangely it used to growl at my mate when he told his kids off.

Not sure introductions is the right place for this discussion - more off-topic if you ask me.

Anyway, one thing that has gained my interest on the whole dog debate is the criteria by which certain breeds have been placed on the shit list.

In the UK, before Dobermans and Rottweilers became more popular, it used to be the German Shepherd or Alsation that was the bad dog. Then, as the skinheads and machomen took to the Rottweiler that became the target of any campaign. Dobermans started to be seen in scrapyards instead of Alsations - public perception saw them as vicious guard dogs and certainly not suitable for pets. Completely wrong, of course.

Currently, I have absolutely no understanding of why Dobermans are on the dangerous breeds list, and little idea of why Rottweilers join them there IF German Shepherds are excluded (I'm not calling for German Shepherds to be added to the list by the way - it's just the traits of the breeds are similar so there is not sense to the list). Most of the others I can't comment on as I have no experience with those breeds.

Why would anyone want to keep a Doberman - easy, they are delightful companions without a hint of malice in the breed. While a donkey sized one would be a bit scary they don't grow that big, they are generally smaller than German Shepherds.

Personally, to create a dangerous breeds list, I would look at the number of bite incidents associated with the breed and correlate that with the seriousness of the attack. A child being killed by a dog is a terrible tradgedy and the owners should be brought to account but isolated incidents should not condem a breed. If this was acceptable then humans would be in deep doo doo as one serial killer incident would taint us all (and maybe it does).

I dont think the problem is just about certain breeds. I have a large Labrador and daily i watch people cross over the road rather than walk past him or have even turned round and walked in the other direction. Switzerland is a country of small dogs due to the majority of people living in apartments so i do to a certain degree understand why people here seem to be more wary of large dogs.

I used to out with a guy and he had a friend (who was not all there in the head) that had a rottwieller, and used to feed it steriods to make it bigger as they used it to guard there scrapyard. If we ever went to his house the dog would let you in, but god help us when we tried to leave it would stand at the door and growl show its teeth and get ready to attack you
Then the dog owner would throw it a biscuit so we could make a run for it (i only went twice) the dog had to be put to sleep because it got so big its legs collapsed it could not hold is own weight.

I had a very nice soft French Standard Poodle, and a Labrador.

You don't get it do you? I don't want to know about dogs.

Over the years I have been bitten when out walking, my daughter was attacked by a dog and daily I get my arse sniffed, hands wiped with dog snot from passing dogs, I tread in their shit, I get barked at often and they jump up at me given a chance. I have yet to have a dog owner apologise - all I'm told is 'they won't hurt you', 'they're only playing' etc etc...

The owner of that dog should have been put down also..

I totally agree he was a fxxking prat he got off on beating his girlfriend up as well everybody was scared of him he was like the village mobster.

No I don't get it, training should stop dogs from jumping up at people. Naturally they are inquisitive and playful, and you accept that.

Barked at often? Dogs sense fear like most animals, show no fear and you'll have no problems. Did you actually think the dogs might like you?

Tread in shit? Well as you know from my comments before there's no excuse for not picking up after a dog. You own the animal you clean up after it. I've shouted at several people over here for not picking up.

A german friend I have has a couple of dogs one a doberman cross. You can sense the fear in people walking nearby.

I went hiking in the black forest with her a couple of weeks ago with the dogs and people were constantly walking past. I shouted sit and the dog did until the people past without harassment. Much to the shock of the people, no need for a lead as the dog was under control. This wasn't even my dog! Which shows the animal has been trained correctly.

It's about training and control nothing more. I feel apologetic to you for those owners who cannot control their pets. What are you suggesting here we taser every playful animal that might lick you?

Then again I am 6ft 3 and if a dog did try to attack me it would be in for a shock. Saying that wresting with a st bernard is no fun

I am sorry you have had such bad experiences... I too have had bad experiences... a pitbull tried to attack my brother and my brothers poodle ran out to protect my brother and was killed

We had an old shepherd that became senile and attacked my daughter

after I said NO DOGS I HATE THEM...

but then Cody came to us... He was a golden retriever and I was furious that my husband (ex now) got him...

He saved my son's life.. My son went to say with a friend and the parents wasn't watching and my son who was 5 fell in the pool and nearly drowned but Cody who had went as well (they were thinking of getting a dog and wanted to see what it would be like) saved my son...

Cody was the best dog I ever got..

So like people you have good and bad...

Sadly you seem to also come across owners that are not responsible...

I have a 3 month old puppy and yes he is playing and likes to jump up on people (and all the training schools require them to be 6 month old so I have to teach him myself).

I do not let him jump on people and I scold him for doing it.. If he was to jump on someone I would apologize and scold him ...

I am trying to tech him to shake hands rather than jump on peep... My sister has taught her dog this...

Also we have bags to clean up after our Dog... You can buy them at Quality pet and yes it irritates me that people dont clean up after their dogs...

I do not allow him to approach anyone that doesnt approach him... After all he is my dog and not everyone are comfortable with dogs..

I avoided the fight dog thread and I will avoid the whole subject about what breeds are dangerous...

(ancient old argument where no one wins and just causes trouble)

So as a dog owner I will apologize to you for these owners


manuela - welcome to the forum and I would suggest to just train your dog to be well behaved and possibly look into a dog school...

thank you your reply but can you please check on www.youtube?
you will be surprised with how much babykilling machines big dogs are.
i don t like people, animals and anything that kills. nobody does but when 5 coloured people kill do we say for all of them that they are born killers?
media forget to say how many people have big dogs who sleep with their kids.and we have also kids in our house.
media s first job is to write bad news unfortunately.
i was raised as well with big dogs and i was bitten by a small terrie who i was visiting and playing with every day!
in advance in greece we had dogs raised alone with no owner and no training and sure they were big.
but still not a trouble..for anyone.
and we used leash to protect dogs from cars and not people from them.
dogs are not like tigers or crocodiles...they are born friendly.
unfortunately all dogs have less rights than any other animal.
altough they live among us and they are the most educated animals they are kept in a two meters leash unable to run on the fields as it s natural.

i start thinking to not have a dog again in this country.
they are cursed here.

we needed and used them before alarms and huge steal doors exist.
and now like everything that we don t need ..
we are against.
how nice of us..

my daughter was attacked by a dog


what you mean?
attacked?
if she would be attacked she would be bitten, as well not?
i never understood this attack word.
some people use this word for nothing.
when we see a small dog get on its two legs we say he is happy to see us and he is sure friendly.
when a big dog does the same we say i was attacked.
but it s the same.
the fact that the big dog is taller and reach our shoulder change this to attack?our fear maybe that he can attack even when he does not?
and the fact that he is strong enough to fall us down makes him aggressive?
i saw many funny videos on dogs who jumped on their boss and fall him down licking his face!!

You can read about it here:

my dear, the fact that it is a larger dog makes the impact significantly different (jumping up). Either way, it is inappropriate behaviour and the dog owner should stop the dog doing it (awww cute when it is a little dog....) - let's not underestimate what your requirements are as a dog owner.

If you consider children - you have a small 2-year-old trying to hit someone and then a large 13-year-old trying to hit someone - is the "crime" the same? Fundamentally, yes.

No matter what you know as the dog owner (like "he's just being friendly") means nothing to anyone else.

So please remember that