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Old 24.09.2015, 12:15
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Abstinence, however, is pretty much laughed at except for nuns and monks.
Um, different friends maybe? I don't drink alcohol, mix with plenty of people who do, and have never been laughed at for it.

edit: I see NotAllThere beat me to it!
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Old 24.09.2015, 12:29
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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That's what they want you to think.

Bollocks. As I've got older I've encountered more and more people who just don't drink alcohol. Not for religious nor for "alcoholic" reasons. They're just not interested. When out with a mixed group of drinkers and non-drinkers, I can assure that any laugher is reserved for the antics of the drinkers. Drinkers like non-drinkers - they keep you from doing anything too stupid and drive you home.

You really need to broaden your horizons.
Yeah, as you got older.

Edit: just trying to say, no young un is going to listen to that sage advice and think, yeah, i wanna be like that guy while i'm young, he gets it. Never forget everyone was young and ****s up, screwing up is part of life, and there's a good argument that not experiencing risk is bad for you.

Think of how maybe we go on about kids nowadays not being able to enjoy the freedoms we had.
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Old 24.09.2015, 12:43
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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"Half talking shit some of the time."

This makes it really hard to work out the percentage of shit.
Correct. I see nothing changed on this forum. Bunch of bored bankers (wankers?).
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Old 24.09.2015, 12:48
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

Uhh, this is a really hard thing to put in words, but all those anti drink and drug programs never worked on me, they had the opposite effect.


When you're confronted with patronising people, condescendingly talking about other people getting wasted and how they're better than that, you might think, uhm yeah. Until you get wasted and find out how much fun it can be, you wonder, what else was that boring bstd not telling me about?
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Old 24.09.2015, 12:54
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Correct. I see nothing changed on this forum. Bunch of bored bankers (wankers?).
Funny how the people that say this sort of thing keep coming back for more, isn't it?
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Old 24.09.2015, 13:02
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Yeah, as you got older.

Edit: just trying to say, no young un is going to listen to that sage advice and think, yeah, i wanna be like that guy while i'm young, he gets it. Never forget everyone was young and ****s up, screwing up is part of life, and there's a good argument that not experiencing risk is bad for you.

Think of how maybe we go on about kids nowadays not being able to enjoy the freedoms we had.
Yeah, but some young people are less stupid than others.

I ranked quite high on the stupid scales. I can't say the same for everybody I knew.
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Old 24.09.2015, 13:03
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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I've been living in Switzerland for 9 years. I had an alcohol problem and stopped drinking 6 years ago.

But didn't need AA or any other organization, I simply went to my doctor (here in Switzerland), I explained the situation and my doctor arranged an appointment with an addiction specialist.

He's kind of a behavioural psychologist. I had regular meetings (1 hour chats) with this guy for about a year. After 5 months I tried to stop and succeeded. Never drank again. Kept seeing him less and less for the following 7 months. All of this in a kind, professional and discreet manner.

Changed my life and saved my marriage.

You don't need AA or other religious/mystical shit. Just see your doctor.

Good luck
When I was unemployed in canton Vaud, "They" found me a job in a home for recovering alcoholics. It was quite an experience, and I would like to congratulate you in making a good choice. Most of the patients had other addictions too: smoking, peanuts, even work!

At the home we had some professional training, and it seems it can be proved that an addiction comes with measurable changes to the brain structure. We also learnt that addictions are extremely difficult to end successfully without good help.

My advice is also to start with your doctor, and start while you are ahead!

None of the 20 alcoholic patients had any friends, and only one had a family member they visited, plus one visited his mother.
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Old 24.09.2015, 13:19
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Of course it is. Wanting to control someone else's behaviour, delivering threats and ultimata - they're all signs of someone on a power trip.

You can't change other people's behaviour - you can only change your own. Trying to change someone else's behaviour - especially in a close relationship - will surely result in resentment and, more often than not, failure.
Bollocks. You can help each other become better people. For instance, I used to leave my clothes hanging on the chairs allover the apartment. My GF successfully changed that behaviour, and now I'm a tidier person with a better looking apartment.
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Old 24.09.2015, 13:37
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Bollocks. You can help each other become better people. For instance, I used to leave my clothes hanging on the chairs allover the apartment. My GF successfully changed that behaviour, and now I'm a tidier person with a better looking apartment.
Sure: help, support, encourage - but we can't change other people - not with any hope of long-term success. People can only change themselves.

I used to swear like a sailor round the house. My wife never once asked me to stop. She never gave me an ultimatum. She merely let me know that she felt uncomfortable when I used such language in her earshot and I made the change because I love her, because I value her as a person and she values me as a person. She demonstrated her respect for me by not making any demands, and I demonstrated my respect for her by ceasing to use bad language in her presence.

A healthy relationship is all about mutual respect and love. Forcing somebody to change "or else" is not about mutual respect and love.
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Old 24.09.2015, 14:11
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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A healthy relationship is all about mutual respect and love. Forcing somebody to change "or else" is not about mutual respect and love.
this is, to my mind, a very narrow definition of a healthy relationship. There are a wide spectrum of relationships, with varying degrees of respect, or what is defined as "respect".
Lot of books and movies deal with such subjects, no need to go into them here.

On the other hand, addiction is, as far as medical science is concerned, an illness. Addicts have some parts of their neural connections permanently changed in their brains. For most of them it is not just a decision, or lifestyle. They are ill.

And, as a loving partner, it is your duty (and reward) to help your SO if you love him/her. In some cases, if an ultimatum works, then it is a form of help, isn't it? Thereby you have shown greater love. By "leaving them alone to make their own decisions" you are just acting selfish. Again, not all relationships are the same, but you get the idea.
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Old 24.09.2015, 14:17
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Bollocks. You can help each other become better people. For instance, I used to leave my clothes hanging on the chairs allover the apartment. My GF successfully changed that behaviour, and now I'm a tidier person with a better looking apartment.
The ultimate test for determining how tidy you really became will be when she's away for couple of months...
If that new habit still holds...congrats!
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Old 24.09.2015, 14:22
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Addicts have some parts of their neural connections permanently changed in their brains. For most of them it is not just a decision, or lifestyle. They are ill.
We all have neural connections permanently changed in our brains each time we do something; it's not a guide to illness.

The brain generally favours routine and tries to pass off as many decisions to the subconscious as possible; this is also where "muscle memory" comes in. Despite the fact most of us have cupboards full of food and near permanent access to more food to buy, evolution has made us value saving energy, and the brain uses a lot.

So we're all addicts in that we all get a good feeling from repetitive actions (oi, shush at the back). Addiction is a stronger desire to repeat and needs more measurements to define it as an illness. That's how I understand it all, anyway.
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Old 24.09.2015, 19:25
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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My feeling is that Izabela believes she can save her boyfriend from himself, so to speak. I don't think it's a power trip, at least not in the sense that you're attributing to "power".
Many women think they're responsible for their partners, friends, parents etc etc. Truth is - you can't save anyone without them wanting to be "saved".
My mother has diabetes type II and now that she has plenty of time on her hands she's frenetically baking cookies and stuff every single day...for whoever might show up at my parents' of course. No discussion proved to be effective so far so...each to their own I guess.
I think that caring too much is as bad as not caring at all. Or even worse.

Thank you and you are lovely but no, I am really not one of these women who believe they can save anyone by taking care, showing lots of love or ultimatum. It simply does not work so the best thing one can do is to be a bit selfish and save yourself, your own future by leaving such relationship. Being soft, accepting, understanding is wrong as by doing it you agree to spend the rest of your life in alcoholic relationship. Why would you? Why anyone should do it? I believe I deserve better. There are women who choose to stay in abusive relationships but it is hell on earth.

I am not planing of trying to save anyone. I just don't want to have this problem in my relationship. I chose not to be in alcoholic relationship. I don't expect any abstinence but control and moderation but if he loves his beer more than he loves me the door is open... I see nothing wrong with it.

Alcohol, if it doesn't ruin your life and can be controlled is wonderful.
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Old 24.09.2015, 19:36
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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The ultimate test for determining how tidy you really became will be when she's away for couple of months...
If that new habit still holds...congrats!
My mum used to panic and patronize me when I were reaching for drinks. Even though I never used to drink excessively, she always used to make me feel uncomfortable, guilty and angry about my habits. Not only did it not bring about the expected result, but made me do quite the opposite. Mind you, that was still a case in my late 20-30's.

Now, my wife doesn't give a rat's ass whether I reach for a pint or two. She wins me this way, because actually I do not have desire to drink more and always administer myself moderation in this department. I think we have come a long way and she is much better placebo.
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Old 24.09.2015, 21:54
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Thank you and you are lovely but no, I am really not one of these women who believe they can save anyone by taking care, showing lots of love or ultimatum. It simply does not work so the best thing one can do is to be a bit selfish and save yourself, your own future by leaving such relationship. Being soft, accepting, understanding is wrong as by doing it you agree to spend the rest of your life in alcoholic relationship. Why would you? Why anyone should do it? I believe I deserve better. There are women who choose to stay in abusive relationships but it is hell on earth.

I am not planing of trying to save anyone. I just don't want to have this problem in my relationship. I chose not to be in alcoholic relationship. I don't expect any abstinence but control and moderation but if he loves his beer more than he loves me the door is open... I see nothing wrong with it.

Alcohol, if it doesn't ruin your life and can be controlled is wonderful.
I couldn't agree more. Diversity is recipe for life.

Emptied whole bottle of Shiraz last night, went jogging today! Nothing wrong, as long as you don't make it a habit to rely solely on. Path to joy and happiness is paved by sampling everything in life with moderation.

P.S. My only regret that this whole bottle was already gone last night, now feel like dry mouthed for rugby game NZ vs Namibia

Last edited by jacek; 24.09.2015 at 22:56.
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Old 24.09.2015, 23:44
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

Thank you everyone for your comments! I started drinking a lot.decided I had enough and checked myself into a clinic for a month to detox.The plan was to attend group therapy but I couldn't understand what was being said because my German sucks! There is absolutely no group therapy available in Switzerland for English speaking people. I wonder why? Am I the only person in this country with this problem?
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Old 25.09.2015, 08:16
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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<removed freemasons stuff - not really relevant>

The trouble is that simply apologising often (usually?) isn't enough to actually make amends, and though it may serve a purpose for the recovering alcoholic to make them feel better about themselves, if it still leaves the people they've hurt in the same situation it's not really achieved very much.



One might think so, and you clearly do, but I'm not sure I agree. Having a father who was a terrible parent and husband say, years later when the kids are in their thirties, "I want to make it up to you, be the father now that I wasn't at the time" really, really doesn't help anybody. For instance.

No that's true apologising is very often not enough. But, if it's sincerely meant, and the perpertrator is genuine about making amends, a seed can be sown for the future.


Forgiveness is dependant on the recipient of the bad behaviour.
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Old 25.09.2015, 09:09
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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Thank you everyone for your comments! I started drinking a lot.decided I had enough and checked myself into a clinic for a month to detox.The plan was to attend group therapy but I couldn't understand what was being said because my German sucks! There is absolutely no group therapy available in Switzerland for English speaking people. I wonder why? Am I the only person in this country with this problem?
Dog.
Just out of curiosity, how much is "a lot"? Did you work meanwhile? Don't be afraid to describe your situation a bit more in detail here.
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Old 25.09.2015, 09:13
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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I couldn't agree more. Diversity is recipe for life.

Emptied whole bottle of Shiraz last night, went jogging today! Nothing wrong, as long as you don't make it a habit to rely solely on. Path to joy and happiness is paved by sampling everything in life with moderation.

P.S. My only regret that this whole bottle was already gone last night, now feel like dry mouthed for rugby game NZ vs Namibia
I just don't get why a thread obviously aimed at people who have drinking problems (or good advice, experiences or input in that area) get invaded by people who don't. 90% of all people can drink in moderation, you're not adding anything new or remotely interesting here.

Sorry for being grumpy, haven't had me coffee yet.
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Old 25.09.2015, 09:15
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Re: Would like to talk to others who don't drink anymore

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I just don't get why a thread obviously aimed at people who have drinking problems (or good advice, experiences or input in that area) get invaded by people who don't. 90% of all people can drink in moderation, you're not adding anything new or remotely interesting here.

Sorry for being grumpy, haven't had me coffee yet.
Caffeine addict, too, eh?

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