I have done a quick search of the forum but couldn't find any info on lessons, I am finally looking into german lessons and wanted to get some feedback and advice.

I know I have options of intensive courses few hours a day 5 days a week for a month and these seem to work out cheaper, or 2 or 3 lessons per week or private lessons.

The intensive course sounds good and i have the time but i worry about my concentration levels doing it every day of the week for a month (i hated school so the idea of going back is scary!) has anyone done an intensive course? is it best?

The idea of being in a group class would be good to meet people but also think i'd find it quite daunting....

So ideally i think i would prefer private lessons but they seem so expensive and at the moment money is really tight and I have had quotes of 100CHF per hour!!

My husband has been given an 8kCHF budget for lessons with work and we hoped we could try and use the budget for both of us but he has been told he has to use the in house approved tutors which is dissapointing

If anyone can give me some advice on best schools/cheapest/best learning method i would greatly appreciate it - or if anyone wants to earn a few extra francs and is willing to teach me let me know

Many thanks
Nicky

P.S Hope I have posted this in the right section - apologies if i haven't

Migrosschule. 3 mornings or afternoons per week. Cheap as chips, and quite fun. I think they're the school is next to oerlikon bahnhof.


dave

If the lessons have to be held at work then thats a bummer, cos otherwise you could get a "Flying Teacher" or something to teach you both at the same time for only slightly more than the (company-funded )individual rate.
dave

I know, thats what we hoped but he has to go with this certain company (who aer expensive) and lessons to be held at work - we hoped to try and pull a fast one and get us both lessons but they are sneakier than us

Then off to the Migrosschule with you without further ado.
dave

Ironic thing is for a language school that teaches English is their website doesn't have an English option!!

I got a budget from work and i too had to use an approved school. I wanted to go Berlitz out of reputation and I must say I'm glad I didn't. I go to Swissing (near Enge BH) and they are brilliant. An expensive school guarantees you nothing.

I did one course in a group once a week for 2 hours, which I must admit was slow. I speak Dutch and Swedish so retaining German vocabulary is not as difficult for me as it was for some of the others. The second course I did was semi-private, twice a week, total 3 hours - this went well and since the other guy got all busy on us he never turned up, so I ended up getting private lessons. This is when things really started to happen.

Now I do private lessons twice a week, 3 hours. The results are astonishing.

I think whether you know a little or nothing, group lessons are good to a point, then go private or semi private.

Migro schools are apparently very good, I know people who've been there for language courses and I doubt you'll get cheaper.

will phone migros klubschule up, have heard they are cheapest - which is good but also heard they weren't very good so put me off - I think I am just scared to start lessons as i was terrible at languages at school and thought if Migros weren't very good then maybe they wouldn't be good for me...

I learned Dutch at Migrosklubschule and doubtless, learning German there would be a laugh. I mean, it'd be full of Johnny Foreigner

I did the semi-intensive course three times a week. There were a lot of brazilian housewives and immigrant workers there so it was great fun. No getting bogged down in future-passive. It was more about getting-down and playing funky.

dave

Nicky ask if you can sit in on a lesson to see if the style of teaching suits you. My husband & I both went to Berlitz for lessons; the style really suited him and he learnt to speak really well but it didn't suit me. If I had had a trial lesson with them I doubt I would have signed up for their very expensive lessons.

yeah i went to see Berlitz but wasn't sure about the teaching style, and its a gamble to fork out a lot of money then to find it doesn't suit, so good idea about sitting in on a lesson think I'll ask about that

Hi Nicky,

I guess I'll chip in with my own experience. I've tried private lessons and group lessons. Private lessons are usually expensive, but I found that in my case they were so much more effective that they were worth the money.

Mind you, I did my private lessons with an old German woman in London - she'd taught German for 25 years and also written a textbook. She's most likely dead now - but I thought she was an excellent teacher. I was so terrified I used to always spend lots of time on self study - so I wouldn't get shouted at when I did the next lesson! I used to pay her 10 pounds an hour - bargain! I don't have any particular talent for language, but after 5 months of 2 hours per week I arrived in Germany with basic German. I joined a group class that had been going full time (i.e. 20 hours per week) for the same period (5 months) and I was at the same (or better) level than they were. I gave up on the group class in the end - it was a good way to listen to everybody elses mistakes and pronunciation errors. Private lessons may help you to avoid many pronunciation mistakes and you can progress at your own pace without anyone holding you back.

Some people think that taking the easy approach is best - i.e. don't worry about all that complicated grammar stuff - just forget der/die/das and speak. this all depends on what your goal is - if you want people to keep answering you English and to be constantly frustrated that your German never quite goes where you want it to then take the easy road. If you'd like to have the satisfaction of trying to speak German properly then you'll have to do it all the hard way - i.e. learning grammar. Trust me - if you do the hard work on Grammar - you'll reach a point where it gets much easier - there is definitely a "tipping point".

Sorry if this leaves you more confused than when you started - it won't be easy

I'll leave everyone with a little cheat-sheet that I made for someone a few years ago that was learning German. Maybe some of you will find it useful. If you give it to a native German speaker watch the look of confusion that will cross their face as they try to figure it out. One thing that English natives and German natives have in common is almost complete ignorance of the formal grammar rules which build their native language...

Enjoy!

By the way - back in the early days of the forum we used to have a special area called language corner. The idea was for people learning German to get help or for the occassional translation help.

Nobody used it, so I got rid of it. If anyone thinks that this would be a useful area to bring back - let me know.

Just for the record, I did an intensive course with Berlitz, in Stuttgart. Four weeks, eight hours per day, private lessons. By the end of the third week, my brain was full and I couldn't take in anything new.

Then I arrived in Switzerland and couldn't understand anything.

The Berlitz blurb promised fabulous things after "only" four weeks, but the reality was quite different for me.

I've never taken German lessons in group classes, but I think that Mark is right when he says it's good to hear other people make mistakes. Not from the schadenfreude experience, but rather the encouragement that it brings and you also get to hear how you might sound if you say the wrong thing.

I believe most Germans/Swiss/Austrians speak better English that I speak German, but I hear lots of disagreements about this. Many people are relieved that an English guy can speak German, some are actually surprised.

Mark's comments about the two schools of thought were interesting to me. I find that most of the people who'd rather speak German than English don't care if I make grammatical errors because they understand my point anyway. But occasionally, when I (accidentally) use something like the genitive correctly, it can really impress the socks off some of the native speakers.

Out of everything I've ever done or learned in my english guy speaking english life, learning another language has been challenging, difficult and the yet most rewarding thing. Ich kann es nur empfehlen.

=DM=
PS I would love to live in Germany for a few months. Every time I go there and hear the language, it's like music: it's the language I've been learning, rather than what I've been hearing.

Think it could be useful?

Thanks for the advice, i'll take it on board, i think private lessons would be best for me also, would be fab if I could find someone who only charges the equivalent of £10 per hour!! think I would be looking for a long time, 80CHF per hour seems to be the cheapest!

Cheers Nicky

Ummm, that's not quite what I meant - what I meant is that it is BAD, unless you've got your pronunciation to the point where you can tell good from bad! Then it's no problem - you'll go to the group classes and think "oh my god" and leave. If you aren't aware of (or care) about pronunciation then you might end up picking up very bad habits and referring to the small town near Zurich which offers low taxes as "Zöööög".

Can't recall hearing your spoken German - but I have seen your written German and it looks pretty good to me - it's obvious that you DO care about grammar. People always tend to underrate their own language ability (when sober), so trust the others on that one - the meaning of a communication is in the ears of the receiver so they say.

Especially when they don't even know what genitive means and you have to explain it to them

I know what you meant: It's good to hear the mistakes of others because it makes it easier to discover them within yourself.

(Gosh, that sounds awfully deep; it must the time of night)

=DM=

Hey Nicky,

I used to manage a Language School so I hope the following may be of help.

Firstly, as with wine, it's quality not quantity which counts. 10 hours of quality teaching can be worth 50 hours of group time-wasting.

My experiences both privately and professionally show it's great to be in a small group of adults who are paying for the course themselves. This means you have dedicated students who are mature enough to want to learn and respect you're there to learn as well.

Dare I suggest you avoid the classes which include the disinterested and the young: on the whole they pull you back. Large groups (10 students or so) are usually a mixed bag of personalities: the hopeless and the brainy together do not a conducive atmosphere make.

Should there be someone who has no idea about their own language structure - and you HAVE to have a basic understanding to learn a new language - this will pull everyone back. And it's your cash their squandering.

It may well seem less intimidating but ultimately the large group classes are outdated. They're not effective and you'll waste time.

Small group classes (2-5 people) are ideal.

- you use your language in a social setting just as you will be doing
- being in a small group creates camaraderie and lessens the 'work' factor
- you'll assist the others and they'll assist you
- it'll be more fun for the teacher and thus be a better atmosphere
- there's the social element, which is desirable!

I've met some wonderful friends via German classes. Chosing your teacher is important. I suggest you steer clear of the big schools, really. I know them all and wouldn't recommend them. You will learn there, just not effectively. They're not totally bad...

Go small, discuss with the contact person your needs and learning styles. Not everyone likes small groups; not everyone likes large. I can testify the Swiss LOVE private classes - there's a tremendous fear of failure here, great to see a UBS Director cacking his pants because he can't remember one bloody word Ha! - but these are expensive and you miss a lot of the learning experience on your own.

Remember, communication is about communicating and not getting it 100% right. Kids learn, make mistakes, but have no fear of sounding inelegant. (Also, Kids correct you without making you feel an idiot. They don't care if your grammar is wonky. But don't spend too much time at the play area or you'll get a reputation )

Good Luck, make the effort: the rewards are priceless. So many people here suffer because of language limitations and this has negative effects on ones quality of life. It's difficult though, eh?

nice cheat sheet, just what i need