What amazes me in school my son learns Swiss french not French French. He is also suppose to learn Queens English, which he speaks fluently(with a scouse accent). When he wrote rubber he was marked as wrong. The answer was eraser.(isn't that American.) As for learning HG or SG surely that depends on your personal circumstances. I'm a housewife in a small villiage so therefore I've learnt SG as I socialise mainly with other swiss housewives.If you are in international business then HG.

Just my $ 0.02 , I've come to like Swiss German better than high German, I find it very charming somehow. However the Swiss usually switch to high German once they hear by my accent that I am not Swiss I find that if I stubbornly refuse to speak high German with them they eventually switch back to their native tongue. Anyone else have this experience too? I am not amazed that they teach Swiss French in schools, after all we're in Switzerland, not in France.

Are the two very different?

No. IIRC there are a few local words and they don't go in for this 'four twenties' stuff when wanting to say eighty.

I too have come to prefer hearing Swiss German to High German. I think "very charming" is quite a good description.

I understand a lot, but still don't speak SG, my major problem being that it's not a written language; I really do have difficulty learning a language if I can't see it in print.

As to the HG/SG question, what regularly happened at work when I first came here was the question at the start of a meeting: "Shall we speak HG, SG, or English?".

If the vote went for HG, everyone would start off with that, but 10 minutes later, the Swiss would be back in SG

I would not know many differences between French French, or Swiss French, however numbering varies among francophones depending where they are:

70 80 90
French: soixante-dix, quatre-vingt, quatre-vingt-dix
Belgian-F: septante, quatre-vingt, nonante
Swiss-F: septante, huitante *, nonante

* in GE, NE, JU quatre-vingt is used
* in VD, VS, FR huitante is used

I believe octante is now considered archaic in Switzerland.
Mind you I never understood why the french say four-twenties-ten for 90.

Let us not be fussy about spelling mistakes.
But I believe you may rbe referring to a dialect which uses the words innergrate and innernational!

Humour and humor aside, there are some great replies on this topic, thanks everyone.

In theory, as far as I know, it has long been required (in Berne canton
at least and I think in other German-speaking cantons) that secondary
school classes be taught in High German and not Swiss German. This
was a few years ago extended to primary schools, and a few months
ago to kindergartens! (That's an English word, believe it or not :-)

If anyone has the real information, please can post it!

Since Swiss German dominates in the playgrounds,
and between mothers and children, I cannot imagine
that there will be much effect on pre-schoolers for
another generation. Except of course in the many classes
where foreign-born children are a majority.

Graham

I could be wrong but isn't rubber the word used here for condom?

My son is in KG & has a high German teacher three times per week.

Hallo,

first I would say Hallo as a newbie in this room. To introduce myself
I am a German, but I live at present in Brussel/Belgium, I am thinking to relocate next year to Switzerland.

This is a very interesting thread. ImHO I really would recommend
English or French speakers to learn High German.

Why:

1) Swiss German is not an official language in the EU. official
language is Switzerland is German

2) Newspapers and TV: it is in High German

3) High German is official language in Austria, Luxemburg, Belgian
(They have a German part), North of France, North of Italy and
of course a accepted language in Namibia(Africa).

4) in Earstern Europe is High German Language Number 2 after English, the same in the scandinavian countries.

With High German you can communicate in some parts in Southamerica such
as Chile or Brasil where German is very often spoken (comes from
the emigrats between 1820 and 1870).

But what is Swiss German ? I do not want to be arrogant, but it is
reall just a German akzent, not more. I respect the people to speak this, but again, Swiss German is not an official language.

Therefore it is more usefull to learn High German in Switzerland.

I speak High German because I am Hannover. If I would relocate
to Bavaria I would never learn Bavarian, same argument as before.

regards

Hello,
It happens often that people begin speaking to me in Swiss-german, and then, after a sentence or 2, say, 'should I speak high german?'. Personally, I prefer to listen to swiss german than high german, at least when I am here, but I appreciate it that people ask. And it is good practice. As I type I am listening to the hockey on internet radio. It would be impossible without having heard swiss-german a bit.

With regard to learning German in an environment where everybody speaks some English, I actively asked people to speak German with me. It was boring for the locals at first to listen to my struggling, and they would often switch to English. I would just politely say that if I always spoke English, then I would never learn. People were always understanding of my logic. My ex girlfriend (English) was a little harsher. She told people that if they wanted to practise English with her, they would have to pay! She spoke perfect German though.

Although I understand German quite well, I never try to speak Swiss-german. It just sounds stupid with my accent (Australian), and I end up having to say everything again, but in high german. So far, it hasn't seemed to bother people that I speak to them in high german.

cheers

robert

2 short comments.

Swiss german is an official language, and has been for some time.

I don't agree with any of the poll options. If there was an option along the lines of 'life is easier if some effort is made to understand Swiss-german', I would tick it.

I do think I have to put my 2cents worth in.....
-Since I'm Swiss - it is really annoying if everyone always says that Swiss German is just a dialect - it is true that it originates from the Germanic Language, but it has been spoken for several hundred years (and most -not all- Germans don't understand most of it, depending on the origin of it) and there are many different versions for such a small country! Just had to get that off my chest. Also, HG has only been established as official language because otherwise we might have had a little civil war to determine which one would be the "real" Swiss German language(/dialect).
- Secondly, it is a moot point if it is not an official language in the EU - we're not part of it

It is true though that learning proper HG will make it easier since official documents, news, newspapers are all in HG. So it is almost a necessity. Also, once you understand HG and have daily contact with SG, it won't take long to pick up the local Lingo..

But as said, I'm Swiss and have grown up with it, so maybe I'm wrong??

Cheerio

That is right - Switzerland is not a part of the EU.

But Swiss politicians are very often in Bruessel where I work - believe me:

they speak in the institutions of the EU in High German (or English).
The translators cannot unterstand there Swiss German.

I also disagree: Swiss German is not an official language, why are then
the newspapers in High German ? Or TV news ?

more information for German one can find in wikipedia

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language


However; I respect the wish of the Swiss-Germans and Autrians that they want to have their own language.

Here in Belgium where German is official language too they speak in the German Part of Belgium High German, they have to dialect.

It doesn't matter what are the official languages in the E.U.
(a local group of about half of the countries in Europe).
In Wales some people speak Welsh, in Spain Catalan, in
Ireland if you work for the government, you have to know Gaelic,
and
And these are seen as languages, not dialects.

The "official language is Switzerland is German"
There are FOUR official languages, THREE of them national languages.

>But what is Swiss German ? I do not want to be arrogant, but it
>is really just a German akzent, not more.
This is more ignorant than arrogant. An accent is a way of pronouncing a
language and a dialect is a regional version. There is no standard
definition of a language; what I like best is "a dialect with an army
and navy".

http://web.uvic.ca/geru/472/germanic.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dialect

Swiss German has enough different grammatical aspects,
different words, and different meanings from German words,
to be respected as a a branch of the language Allemanic
(other current branches are Alsatian and Swabian)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alemannic_German
My wife's family speaks "Schwabisch" from the Stuttgart area.

>If I would relocate to Bavaria I would never learn Bavarian,
>same argument as before.
It is different case. In Germany a local dialect is regarded as
uneducated and common. The centralistic push to High German
contrasts with the Swiss style of federalist politics. Same with France.

Bayerisch is the langaue of not only Bavaria but all Austria,
and of course it has its regional dialects too.
The German culture minister is reported as saying that "Teachers
in Bavaria should in future better promote local dialects"
http://www.sueddeutsche.de/,tt4m2/jo...kel/980/68912/
"Mundart gehört zur Entfaltung regionaler, sozialer und kultureller Identität von Schülerinnen und Schülern." Dialekte seien oftmals authentischer, ausdrucksstärker und auch facettenreicher als die Hochsprache"

This is like Britain - what they call "BBS English" or "Received Pronunciation"
in Britain, before they realized that the local dialects - Scouse,
Brummi, etc, - were an important and valid linguistic treasure.
And that for the integration of the U.K. each should be valued
with public use for instance in radio and TV. As regions assert their
independence, for instance Wales or Corsica, the local language
is used as a political tool.

>2) Newspapers and TV: it is in High German
What newspapers use, depends only on their reader circle,
NOT on any official rule. A TV station that reaches a national
audience makes it simple; many TV and radio stations use local dialect.

In a free country, there is not a national law to say what language
to use (my opinion)! And what others use elsewhere is not relevant.
Within the country, both forigners and natives can adapt.

Graham

PS "Diglossia" means two closely-related languages in a community,
one regarded as formal, the other is the common or spoken language.
This can be seen in many countries, I love it. Currently my book
group is reading Mark Twain, often his spoken text shows this.

Languages are a part of a culture. The advantage of the EU are the different cultures . If I relocate in another country I have
to learn the language, and of course, if I have success it makes
fun ! You have much more friends if you use the language of the
country where you live.
For English native speaker is it of course difficult to learn German because
Germans (and I assume Swiss German) switch automatically into English if
they here the accent.

On the other hand, when I worked in Frankfurt I had three coworkers
from UK, all lived there more than 5 years and they were not able to
to make a small talk in German.

Besides that:

I have read here that the Swiss Germans are saying that
Swiss German is an official language. Okay, I got it.

But what is with Swiss French and Normal French ?

Is Swiss French an official language too (like Swiss German ?)

and the same for Italian ?

I'm sure you meant a "High German" teacher and not a "high" German teacher. ;-) Otherwise you need to have a chat with the school's administration...

Give it 200 years, the whole world will be speaking one fairly common language anyway, that or society will have collapsed and every village will go back to having it's own language.

On a more serious note I'm getting a little sick of people telling me I'll never learn Swiss German and there is no reason to learn it, and at the same time always using Swiss German when they are having conversations around me (but not directly to me), I think to some extent the Swiss want to hang onto their language / dialect just as a way to keep themselves seperate from all the foriegners they bring in to work for them.

An excellent post Graham.

Did you mean to say "BBC English" above?

Being the old git that I am, I remember when losing your UK regional accent and learning RP was seen as a smart move for both your career and social life. It was (still is to some extent?) also used as a very effective barrier (and even weapon) in the class system.

It wasn't until I found myself living in southern Netherlands where they were proud of their Limburg dialect, that I realized the value of my own region's dialect/accent (Yorkshire).

When I returned to Yorkshire a few years later I made a determined effort to re-learn the local lingo, and it really did make for better communications. It's also an essential part of the humour there.

So, I say long live the regional variations in Switzerland. The geography of the land is an integral part of this; when the trip to the neighbouring valley is blocked by a huge mountain, you don't go there often.