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  #61  
Old 07.03.2013, 05:51
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Re: German is easy ;)

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a dependent clause where the conjugated verb goes at the end of the clause (I think). e.g., ich rede nur Englisch, weil ich die Nase voll mit Deutsch habe.
Ahh,, in this example it is what I would call the help word (Hillfs-Verb) like to be or to have. And this may be at the beginning of the sentence while the real verb is put at the end just as in
Ich habe Ihren Brief ganz ordnungsgemäss bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet, per Priority Post erhalten.




You can change the sentence into two or three sentences
Ich habe Ihren Brief bereits erhalten. Das war bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet. Und zwar per Priority Post.
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  #62  
Old 07.03.2013, 10:24
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Re: German is easy ;)

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Ahh,, in this example it is what I would call the help word (Hillfs-Verb) like to be or to have. And this may be at the beginning of the sentence while the real verb is put at the end just as in
Ich habe Ihren Brief ganz ordnungsgemäss bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet, per Priority Post erhalten.




You can change the sentence into two or three sentences
Ich habe Ihren Brief bereits erhalten. Das war bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet. Und zwar per Priority Post.
this to me is the passive past, the dependent clause for me would be "ich habe deinen brief bereits erhalten, der du mir den letzten woche geschickt hast." it's the "geschickt hast" at the end that drives me absolutely bonkers, especially when trying to speak.

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  #63  
Old 07.03.2013, 10:29
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Re: German is easy ;)

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You can change the sentence into two or three sentences
Ich habe Ihren Brief bereits erhalten. Das war bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet. Und zwar per Priority Post.
You spoil sport - that is just not cricket Wolli

Although I do teach my French students how to avoid the subjunctive by changing:

Il faut que vous fassiez vos devoirs into vous devez faire vos devoirs.
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  #64  
Old 07.03.2013, 12:02
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Re: German is easy ;)

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Ahh,, in this example it is what I would call the help word (Hillfs-Verb) like to be or to have. And this may be at the beginning of the sentence while the real verb is put at the end just as in
Ich habe Ihren Brief ganz ordnungsgemäss bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet, per Priority Post erhalten.




You can change the sentence into two or three sentences
Ich habe Ihren Brief bereits erhalten. Das war bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet. Und zwar per Priority Post.
This is what I do when I feel it's gonna be a veeery long sentence and I'm veeery likely to forget to put the verb at the end....and I thought I was smart and no-one would notice...
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  #65  
Old 07.03.2013, 19:11
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Re: German is easy ;)

How do you guys remember if things are Der, Die oder Das?? I can remember words but never the gender. I got told off at work this week for asking for "die" Schlüssel.... Grrrrr, guess I won't forget it's "der" next time!
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  #66  
Old 07.03.2013, 19:53
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Re: German is easy ;)

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How do you guys remember if things are Der, Die oder Das?? I can remember words but never the gender. I got told off at work this week for asking for "die" Schlüssel.... Grrrrr, guess I won't forget it's "der" next time!
you can't...because we have no feeling for what sounds right...das Auto or der Auto, sounds the same for me...

there are some rules but there also A LOT of exceptions...

The grammar in your native language you know because you know it is right and because it sounds correct and not because of all the rules...
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  #67  
Old 07.03.2013, 20:04
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Re: German is easy ;)

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you can't...because we have no feeling for what sounds right...das Auto or der Auto, sounds the same for me...
das Auto is the one I do know.... Thanks to Volkswagen
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  #68  
Old 07.03.2013, 21:28
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Re: German is easy ;)

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How do you guys remember if things are Der, Die oder Das?? I can remember words but never the gender. I got told off at work this week for asking for "die" Schlüssel.... Grrrrr, guess I won't forget it's "der" next time!
Hmm.. I never get told off, I'm rather gently corrected...or is it my perception?
No, really. Compared to France, where when you're less than perfect and for every little mistake or mispronunciation you get ridiculed...here is Heaven. Again, my personal opinion. (and I have to admit I personally demand a lot more from myself... )

But how do I remember genders? First of all I (long time ago) stopped to object and think some nouns have a ridiculous gender for their meaning; then, I try to learn new words altogether with their definite articles; when I read something in German I exercise my memory and try to guess what is the gender of some nouns from the context (from the "mit der", "auf den" etc. - ok, sometimes, this could not help you to distinguish between masculine and neutral ) and in general I watch German movies or something easy to understand from the context. It helps a lot, although I know people don't believe it.
I guess everyone has her/his own method.
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Last edited by greenmount; 07.03.2013 at 21:40.
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  #69  
Old 07.03.2013, 22:13
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Re: German is easy ;)

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Ich habe Ihren Brief ganz ordnungsgemäss bereits Anfang der letzten Woche, also früher als erwartet, per Priority Post erhalten.
Come on, let's make it fun:

Ich habe dank des in dem im Westen gelegenen wegen gegen Erwartung plötzlich wiederkehrender Winterverhältnisse schneebedeckten Tal wohnenden trotz vorsichtiger Vorkehrungen erkrankten Postboten in den späten Stunden des heutigen Tages endlich den mir ganz ordnungsgemäß und doch früher als erwartet bereits Anfang der letzten Woche per A-Post zugestellten Brief erhalten.

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  #70  
Old 07.03.2013, 22:43
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Re: German is easy ;)

Totally normal utterance of everyday life.

Put some Kommata and "und" inside, replace "wegen gegen" by "entgegen", and it works fine.
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  #71  
Old 07.03.2013, 22:55
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Re: German is easy ;)

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replace "wegen gegen" by "entgegen", and it works fine.
Nope.

wegen gegen Erwartung plötzlich wiederkehrender Winterverhältnisse
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  #72  
Old 08.03.2013, 01:05
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Re: German is easy ;)

U sure?

I would have simply said


Ich habe dank des im westlich gelegenen, entgegen aller Erwartungen plötzlich wiederkehrender Winterverhältnisse schneebedeckten Tal wohnenden, trotz vorsichtiger Vorkehrungen erkrankten Postboten in den späten Stunden des heutigen Tages endlich den mir ganz ordnungsgemäß, und doch früher als erwartet, bereits Anfang der letzten Woche per A-Post zugestellten Brief erhalten.


*gegen wegen or *wegen gegen sounds pretty bad.


However, in my ears the rest of your sentence doesn't sound bad nor weird nor artificial. In its negative version the perfect excuse for any delay or missing homework or whatever.
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  #73  
Old 08.03.2013, 02:52
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Re: German is easy ;)

The term "kennenlernen" makes me laugh
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  #74  
Old 08.03.2013, 05:37
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Re: German is easy ;)

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How do you guys remember if things are Der, Die oder Das?? I can remember words but never the gender. I got told off at work this week for asking for "die" Schlüssel.... Grrrrr, guess I won't forget it's "der" next time!
Are you sure you were not (correctly) asking "Wo sind die Schlüssel ?" - Plural.
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  #75  
Old 08.03.2013, 06:30
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Re: German is easy ;)

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Are you sure you were not (correctly) asking "Wo sind die Schlüssel ?" - Plural.
No, unfortunately it was a single key!
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  #76  
Old 08.03.2013, 06:56
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Re: German is easy ;)

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this to me is the passive past, the dependent clause for me would be "ich habe deinen brief bereits erhalten, der du mir den letzten woche geschickt hast." it's the "geschickt hast" at the end that drives me absolutely bonkers, especially when trying to speak.

Akkusativ please, which means DEN Du mir in der letzten Woche (Dativ) geschickt hast .

Ich habe jenen Text bereits durchgesehen, den Du mir vor einigen Wochen oder mehr, per direktem Email, gesandt hast.
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  #77  
Old 08.03.2013, 06:58
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Re: German is easy ;)

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U sure?

I would have simply said


Ich habe dank des im westlich gelegenen, entgegen aller Erwartungen plötzlich wiederkehrender Winterverhältnisse schneebedeckten Tal wohnenden, trotz vorsichtiger Vorkehrungen erkrankten Postboten in den späten Stunden des heutigen Tages endlich den mir ganz ordnungsgemäß, und doch früher als erwartet, bereits Anfang der letzten Woche per A-Post zugestellten Brief erhalten.


*gegen wegen or *wegen gegen sounds pretty bad.


However, in my ears the rest of your sentence doesn't sound bad nor weird nor artificial. In its negative version the perfect excuse for any delay or missing homework or whatever.
Nice, except that it is Dativ, which means per A-Post zugestelltem Brief
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  #78  
Old 08.03.2013, 14:43
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Re: German is easy ;)

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Nice, except that it is Dativ, which means per A-Post zugestelltem Brief
U sure?

I thougt "per" is accusative, in opposition to a/ab, ex, de, cum, sine, pro, prae?


I was more in doubt about the "r" in "entgegen aller Erwartungen". Sounds nicer with an accusative, too, right? I.e. without the "r".



LG
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  #79  
Old 08.03.2013, 15:47
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Re: German is easy ;)

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Nice, except that it is Dativ, which means per A-Post zugestelltem Brief
Nope it's den mir ...... zugestellten Brief, Akkusativ-Objkt von erhalten.

One needs a preposition for Winterverhältnisse (wegen) and one in the expression gegen Erwartungen. So wegen gegen, but not together as one of course.

I say gegen Erwartungen but if you want entgegen, it's entgegen aller Erwartungen because here, aller is actually a genitive (aller Leute) place before like one used to do in the past.
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Old 08.03.2013, 16:06
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Re: German is easy ;)

German syntax always reminds me of Yoda.

(Putting the verbs at the end).

I finally gave up and just use German words with English syntax. And never mind those pesky conjugations.

They get the point.

That's what truly matters...



May the force with you be.
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