Hi miriamlee,

I am italian and I currently live in Sydney(moving to Zurich soon I hope) and quite frankly I think you would be better off in a smaller town which doesn't have to be too small...I'm thinking of Florence for example (lovely place)
In the bigger cities you meet more foreigners and it's just that easy to speak english all the time. Other than that, in a small town there isn't much to do compared to Milan or Rome and therefore you are forced to mingle with the locals.

Hi,
I'm Italian too and I'd also suggest Florence (Firenze ). It is not a big city like Milano or Roma, the quality of life is high, the town itself is one of the richest in art and history, the surrounding landscape is very nice. It's not boring like a small village It's one of the top tourists' destinations in Italy (and in the world), so if you have problems with your Italian, you can use English from time to time

Furthermore the language spoken in Firenze is the most "pure" you can find in Italy. Florence and its Tuscany region is where the standard italian language has its roots, back to the middle ages.

Anyway I'd not go to a small village to learn Italian, because generally in small villages the people tend to speak dialect rather than Italian, better to stick to a city. I'd also stay away from North-East and South: again, in these regions the people are very keen to use dialects.

Since this is the English Forum Switzerland might I suggest the Ticino?

It has been a few years since I have been there, but you have mountains, lakes and delightful valleys, villages and bigger towns (but no mega-cities). Great hiking if you like the outdoors in summer, I believe that there is some skiing in winter. Check out Ticino.ch, which labels itself LA PIATTAFORMA UFFICIALE DEL TURISMO E DEL TEMPO LIBERO TICINESE (The official platform of tourism and leisure in Ticino). Site is available in Italian, English, French and German.

Ticino is very nice, I agree with that, but it's not the right place to learn proper italian.

They have a very strong accent, they tend to speak in dialect and their version of Italian has some differences, due to the strong influence of German and French. They use a lot of "wrong" words and some of their expressions sounds really funny to an italian.

Typical exemple: to make sense (sinn machen in German), in Ticino is wrongly translated with "fare senso". In Italian "fare senso" means "to be gross/ugly/disgusting", while "avere senso" is (lit.to have sense) is the proper italian translation.

Ooooohhhhh.......ouch! This is where I'm learning Italian!

True, but in my experience they have less inhibitions speaking standard Italian to non-native speakers than Swiss Germans have when they should speak High German.

Ticinese dialect is different, I'd have never figured out that "la ciaf" means "la chiave" for example...

Thanks for the additional information guys...

From my experience learning a new language is extremely exhausting.
Sitting in a group at a party if you are the only non-speaker of whatever language it is, you really have to focus extremely hard on just one conversation to make any sense of it. You will find the temptation to speak english will not only be huge, but will be an enourmous relief at times.

I would suggest if you do find english speaking people there, and befriend them, you make a pact with them to make an effort to talk italian. this way you will be on a similar level and you will find you understand each other quite well, also you can fill the gaps you dont know in english, you will be speaking Eng-talian and is how everyone begins.

It's true tho, at a certain point you really have to make an effort to talk in the new language and once you do this you will improve in leaps in bounds.

Best advice I can give you is don't be afraid to mash the language. You will be making mistakes every sentence to start with, tell people you dont mind being corrected and repeat the corrected sentence after they say it to you. Every time you dont know a word, take a dictionary and use it, as often as you can. This way you will not only be speaking well but your vocabulary will also explode.
They say you only need to know 100 words in another language to have a conversation, so work on your vocabulary as soon as you can.

Good luck, and prepare for brain bleeding concentration spans. its really quite draining, but worth every second.

I learned italian in Ticino and all of my teachers were italian,so its not true that you don't learn "real" italian. As for the accent, IMHO its not really a problem because even in Italy, the accent changes from region to region. The use of certain verbs or expression can be different, I agree. The language is alive, its use evolves with the people and its culture.

I can assure you that the Italian in Ticino is virtually the same as in Italy, and in most cases the use of "wrong" words (as in example given above) are mistakes in Ticino too. Some people just can't speak correctly... Of course I can! Usually these mistakes are made by people who in their homes still speak the local dialect (in general I'm not aware of any influence on the part of either French or German). In general however the use of dialect in public is dying out (sadly - from a cultural point of view); almost no one would address a stranger in dialect, even though it's clear that the person is a ticinese.

Concerning accents, the situation is exactly the same as for English in Britain: e.g. the English spoken by a Londoner sounds different from the English spoken by someone from Manchester. Whether you want to go to London or Manchester to learn English is up to you, and I'd say that it won't make much of a difference if you're a beginner and if you're learning with the help of a teacher. It is true though, Tuscany is usually considered the model for standard Italian (at the same time the "tuscan c" which can be heard in some areas in Tuscany can also be considered a very strong accent...), just as the Queen's English is considered the model for British English (any Brit correct me if I'm wrong...).

Some examples of the influences, (Ticino, french/german, Italia):
Classatore (French: Classeur) = classificatore
Comanda (French: Commande) = ordine
Isolazione (French: Isolation) = isolamento
Laborantina (German: Laborantin) = assistente di laboratorio
Soluzionare (French: Solutionner) = risolvere
Fare senso (German: sinn machen) = avere senso
In Faccia (French en face) = di fronte

Have a look here, there's a good collection of the differences between
"Schwitzer Italienisch" and "hoch Italienisch"
http://www.crcsoft.com/lessico/

Anyway the differences are very small and marginal (even though some of them sound really hilarious to an italian), it is true that italian can be learnt in Ticino...but I'm a perfectionist

There's a third type of italian in Switzerlan, and that is spoken by "secondos", second generation italians born in the german part. They mix swiss german with italian and southern italian dialects (often in the same sentence), using whichever language comes first. "Treffen wir alla stazione verso le nüüni. D'accordo, bis später" That is very hard to follow

I had a look at the website you linked above, and although I must say that I have never or hardly ever heard many of the "wrong" Italian words and expressions listed, some of them are undeniably of common use and definitely of French or German origin! Therefore, I stand corrected!

You're talking about the famous "minkiaweisch" (I tried to spell the word according to German phonetics) -- that's how the ticinesi studying in the Swiss-German area humourously call these Italian secondos. In case it's not clear, the word is meant to mimic the way they speak, and in particular the "classic" sentence: "Minchia, weisch du dass...".

"potevo rimanere offeso ma di brutto, brutto, brutto" (I could end up offended but ugly, ugly, ugly)

Sorry it's just reminiscences of the comedy sketches the Swiss TV in the 90s.

Honestly, it's just a dialect like many others in the different regions of Italy. Not easier or more complicated than the others (with the exception of Naples dialect which will always remain as a separate language). Also easier if you are born from the lombardia I guess. I'd think it's a good place to learn italian. True that I sometimes hear an incomprehensible dialect but mostly it's older people (so the same as anywhere else in Italy) while younger people just retain the typical accent (fair enough, we should keep a little of our origins, myself too, I'll still keep my roman accent despite it would not be welcomed in Ticino ).

I'm probably being overly anal, but one ought to distinguish between the Italian spoken in Ticino and the dialect in Ticino ("dialetto ticinese"), which are two "separate" things (I'm saying this especially for the foreigners reading the thread). The latter is the incomprehensible one, for someone not having grown up in the region (where by "region" I mean not only Ticino, but also the surrounding Lombardia region of Italy -- I believe that they should also be able to understand the dialetto ticinese).

Unfortunately, although I understand it for the most part, I don't really speak the dialetto ticinese, so I'm not able to properly compare the two languages and show the exact origin of certain regional expression used in the Italian spoken in Ticino (such as the "far senso" mentioned above).

Oh, everyone loves Roman accent... although in Ticino it might attract some smiles!

I think it is an important distinction. In the thread on Swiss French Shorrick Mk2 makes the same distinction: Since I visit the Val d'Hérens frequently I know what he means!

Wikipedia has a short section on Language in their Ticino section. Probably short enough to quote in full: Switzerland is a fascinating country in so many ways!!!

Here an example of "la televisione Svizzera". This was very succesful a few years ago in the italian tv.
Pay attention to the accent of the policemen

I think Ticino would be a great place to learn Italian and as anyone whose ever lived in Italy knows, dialect and accent are two diifferent things, the Italians are notorious for knocking other peoples dialects. I learnt in Tuscany and even there there are dialects.
The place with the most different dialects in my experience is Lombardia where of course they think they speak perfectly.The Milanese dialect is hilarious. It will be fine wherever you go although milan and rome are expensive to find accomodation in. How will you support yourself for three months, because that can determine where you go.D

Lol you are using Italian TV to show Ticinese italian..now everyone will be frightened..

Anyway I think a very good place to learn italian is around Como. You are very near Milan if you want to have fun and you don't have a strong accent that could ruin your accent. I don't suggest Florence because you risk to learn the famous florence's accent ( la hoha hola hon la hannuccia - the coca cola with the drinking straw - a lot of people in florence doesn't pronounce the c. Just immagine Coca Cola pronounced with an H like honey or host).

Otherwise just go/come to Lugano and valleys. Lots of people doesn't speak dialects anymore and you surely will not risk to learn something wrong (I mean..you could use "Classatore" with an italian but I'm not sure he/she/it will insult you because of that. If you say "fa senso" you are saying it wrong even for Ticinesi (note that "fare senso" is "make sense" so you could do that mistake because of your english roots (the right one is "have sense" , "ha senso" ).

Are there any good school for a completely fresh in Italian to learn in Lugano? It's great if any web-site given.