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Old 26.06.2016, 12:06
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Re: Language depression!

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How the hell do people do this?
By not caring about how good or bad ones language skill are.

Tom
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Old 26.06.2016, 12:21
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Re: Language depression!

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By not caring about how good or bad ones language skill are.

Tom


By not setting millstones ahead of yourself to stumble over, but rather by looking back and recognising the milestones on your path.


- First time you left the house without your Langenscheidt and didn't get eaten alive


- First time you talk to a child and they don't speak slowly


- First time you are talking to someone from home on the phone and they shout "Stop speaking German!"


- First time you hear someone struggling with learning German and you think "Wenn die nur wüsste".


I'm not poking fun at the OP. Once you stop shouting "Daddy, don't let go!" you will be able to ride a bicycle. Unsteadily at first, but nonetheless.
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Old 26.06.2016, 13:00
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Re: Language depression!

If I was younger- I would run residential courses here where there would be no mobile phones, no internet, and only French speaking tv and DVDs- full immersion - just as I used to do in the UK for English. In 3 weeks, youngsters and adults made massive progress in all 4 skills.

I think this would be a great business idea for a language school- which would need to be located away from big urban places.
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Old 26.06.2016, 13:59
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Re: Language depression!

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Sorry, bit of a "woe is me" post coming up, I'm having a language depression day.
I do not know what to do!! How the hell do people do this?
I spent nearly 2 years struggling to learn German to be able to pass A2. I've understood it is not my language, I hate it, I hate how the swiss german sounds, nobody speaks German in my family, etc, so I started learning French.
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Old 26.06.2016, 14:23
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Re: Language depression!

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I spent nearly 2 years struggling to learn German to be able to pass A2. I've understood it is not my language, I hate it, I hate how the swiss german sounds, nobody speaks German in my family, etc, so I started learning French.
Well, er, yes. Where do you live? If German isn't spoken around you, then a) it's going to be difficult to learn it and b) there wouldn't be much point, would there?

I'm sure I'd find Swahili quite difficult to learn right now, too.
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Old 26.06.2016, 14:44
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Re: Language depression!

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By not setting millstones ahead of yourself to stumble over, but rather by looking back and recognising the milestones on your path.


- First time you left the house without your Langenscheidt and didn't get eaten alive


- First time you talk to a child and they don't speak slowly


- First time you are talking to someone from home on the phone and they shout "Stop speaking German!"


- First time you hear someone struggling with learning German and you think "Wenn die nur wüsste".


I'm not poking fun at the OP. Once you stop shouting "Daddy, don't let go!" you will be able to ride a bicycle. Unsteadily at first, but nonetheless.
- First time you have a conversation in German where you can convey an opinion that goes beyond "this raclette tastes very good".

- First time you catch yourself thinking in German, however basic the thought.

- First time you wake up and realise you dreamt in German, even if you realise it was full of mistakes.

- My goal is that one day a German will believe that I am Swiss German. (Still A LOT of work to do)

Going back to when I learned Norwegian (I was 18 when I started), the ultimate point was the day someone from Bergen asked where I grew up in the city. Until then, only people that didn't speak Bergen dialect could be fooled.

Going back to that learning process, the way I learned Norwegian was by speaking it and not stress about speaking correctly, while at the same time reading and writing (but when writing, being very careful about vocabulary, syntax, grammar and orthography). I didn't try to do it fast, I just let it come to me. Doing the same thing here, but finding that the lack of German speaking network is a real handicap.
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Old 26.06.2016, 14:46
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Re: Language depression!

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I spent nearly 2 years struggling to learn German to be able to pass A2. I've understood it is not my language, I hate it, I hate how the swiss german sounds, nobody speaks German in my family, etc, so I started learning French.
Believe me, if you don't like a language it will be vey difficult to learn it. Unconsciously your brain will be resisting. I tried, and it didn't really work, I only got to a very basic level. But if I have an interest for the culture, the language comes a lot more easily.
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Old 26.06.2016, 16:27
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Re: Language depression!

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Well, er, yes. Where do you live?
I'm sure I'd find Swahili quite difficult to learn right now, too.
I live in Zurich with a French speaking husband. Relatives from Alsace enjoy visiting us on a regular basis.
So yes, Swiss German is a bit Swahili to me.
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  #29  
Old 26.06.2016, 17:04
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Re: Language depression!

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I live in Zurich with a French speaking husband. Relatives from Alsace enjoy visiting us on a regular basis.
So yes, Swiss German is a bit Swahili to me.
Don't worry, I know someone who tried to learn German but ended up taking French classes instead, without having a French speaking husband!
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Old 26.06.2016, 17:22
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Re: Language depression!

Jumbo sana - lala salama x

(the full extent of my Swahili )
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Old 26.06.2016, 18:53
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Re: Language depression!

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If I was younger- I would run residential courses here where there would be no mobile phones, no internet, and only French speaking tv and DVDs- full immersion - just as I used to do in the UK for English. In 3 weeks, youngsters and adults made massive progress in all 4 skills.

I think this would be a great business idea for a language school- which would need to be located away from big urban places.
They do something like this in the USA (for several languages) but it is $9000 plus flights for 8 weeks.
http://www.theguardian.com/education...nguage-student
But I've not found anything similar over here.

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I spent nearly 2 years struggling to learn German to be able to pass A2. I've understood it is not my language, I hate it, I hate how the swiss german sounds, nobody speaks German in my family, etc, so I started learning French.
I hate it too. Although I know more German than French & Italian, I find French much easier to learn and love learning Italian. Need to persuade Hubby to move areas
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  #32  
Old 26.06.2016, 19:00
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Re: Language depression!

As you live in a bilingual C/Kanton- that shouldn't be difficult (and I really can't blame you - Upper Wallis is probably the worst place in the Germanic world to learn German).
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Old 26.06.2016, 19:02
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Re: Language depression!

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Going back to when I learned Norwegian (I was 18 when I started),.
Learning Norwegian grammar is not exactly a time consuming task to accomplish with success and honor compared with German. And with 18, memory is working at its best which does change significantly with age. So learning German after 30 is a very different experience...
I do get your point though, no critical point here, just the irresistible temptation to point out the difference of how big the task is Norwegian vs. German. Especially in Bergen city language with no feminine gender.
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Old 26.06.2016, 19:03
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Re: Language depression!

Try Michel Thomas, I went from 0 to B2 in less than one year using just that course. Great for comprehension/conversation not so much for reading/writing but you have 20Minuten for that just keep away from Blick.
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Old 26.06.2016, 19:07
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Re: Language depression!

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As you live in a bilingual C/Kanton- that shouldn't be difficult (and I really can't blame you - Upper Wallis is probably the worst place in the Germanic world to learn German).

My first job I worked with a Walliser, after a few months I apologised that my French wasn't good enough that we could speak French. He asked why, and when I said "So that one of us would be speaking their mother tongue" he went and got the whole department so we could all have a good laugh at my expense. Thanks to him (we worked together for about a decade) I understand them better than my Swiss (Zürich) Exwife could.
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Old 26.06.2016, 19:43
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Re: Language depression!

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- My goal is that one day a German will believe that I am Swiss German.
I've had Italians ask me which part of Italy I was from (back when I could barely speak any Italian).

On the other hand, I've had a Parisienne ex-girlfriend accuse me of having a 'fake' American accent when speaking French 'just to annoy her, as it wasn't possible to speak Frenck so well and have such an accent'!

(20 years earlier, I was with a Lauasannois friend in Zurich, and we me some girls from Geneva, and one asked my friend 'why does your friend insist on speaking with a fake American accent?' 'because he is' was the response. )

And when I speak German, I dont' speak Swiss German, but I do have a 'Swiss-German accent' (according to a former girlfriend), which confuses Germans to no end.

Tom
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Old 26.06.2016, 21:19
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Re: Language depression!

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Learning Norwegian grammar is not exactly a time consuming task to accomplish with success and honor compared with German. And with 18, memory is working at its best which does change significantly with age. So learning German after 30 is a very different experience...
I do get your point though, no critical point here, just the irresistible temptation to point out the difference of how big the task is Norwegian vs. German. Especially in Bergen city language with no feminine gender.
And you're 100% right, although I was pretty foggy from all the beer drinking, so I'm not sure how my memory was faring compared to today. Norwegian is an easy language to learn, especially when you already speak English. But the multitude of dialects is a bitch at the beginning (my sister in law is from Trondheim, enough said).

On the plus side, the more languages you learn, the easier it gets. Learning German, I find that the fact that I have a solid grasp of French grammar a big help. German is more systematic than French, but it's a beginning. I get help from Norwegian for the vocabulary, and the 2 years spent doing Russian and Arabic help me keep things in perspective: German is difficult, but so are other languages; at least I don't have to learn a new alphabet.

My whole point is that the best way to learn a language is to stop stressing and let the immersion process do its work. It will come when it comes at the level it has to be. You might never speak like a native, but you can get to a perfectly decent level. Our obession for perfection is often what stops us from becoming as fluent as we can.

An interest for the language or at least the culture is also primordial in my opinion. I arrived here unwillingly, and my German didn't really take off until a) I started enjoying life in Switzerland; b) I stopped focusing on the High German/Swiss German divide and went for learning both and enjoying the country as much as possible in the process. I still have a lot to learn, and I'm far from fluent, but my interest motivation to learn the language is increasing with my interest for the local culture, and vice versa. For me at least, both go hand in hand.

But I've also come to the point where any significant improvement is contingent upon having to speak the language every day, which is a reminder that to learn a language fluently you have to use it; unfortunately being an expat housewife isn't very conductive to mastering the local lingo. Gotta get out more!

Cheers from the mountains, going hiking tomorrow. In Romanche territory.
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Old 26.06.2016, 21:54
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Re: Language depression!

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I've had Italians ask me which part of Italy I was from (back when I could barely speak any Italian).

On the other hand, I've had a Parisienne ex-girlfriend accuse me of having a 'fake' American accent when speaking French 'just to annoy her, as it wasn't possible to speak Frenck so well and have such an accent'!

(20 years earlier, I was with a Lauasannois friend in Zurich, and we me some girls from Geneva, and one asked my friend 'why does your friend insist on speaking with a fake American accent?' 'because he is' was the response. )

And when I speak German, I dont' speak Swiss German, but I do have a 'Swiss-German accent' (according to a former girlfriend), which confuses Germans to no end.

Tom
Yeah, but your Rumantsch is shite, Tom.
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Old 26.06.2016, 22:51
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Re: Language depression!

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I hate it too. Although I know more German than French & Italian, I find French much easier to learn and love learning Italian. Need to persuade Hubby to move areas
I'd simplify my life too much if we moved areas.

The truth is I like visiting Ticino and the French speaking cantons, but that's it.
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Old 26.06.2016, 23:13
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Re: Language depression!

I improved my German by having friends who can't speak a word of English.

Sometimes they're foreign too, so we develop our own "dialect", but it helps:
If I must send the news via WhatsApp, I must build a sentence in German and the recipient only cares about the news, not the spelling.
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