This question has bugged me on and off since I arrived in Switzerland but, so far, no-one has been able to give me an answer.

In German (or French, or Italian for that matter) what happens if a new object, condition, illness, sport, whatever is discovered - how is the gender decided?

The other night I was watching a programme on one of the German channels about an archeological dig. One of the team dug up a lump of metal which could have been anything from a bit of an axe to a cooking spoon to a surgical instrument but he knew to refer to it as "sie". How?

It depends on the features and characteristics of the object. If it is soft, slender and shapely, possibly also with round protuberances, it will most likely be a "sie". If on the other hand the object sports hard, rugged attributes chances are it will be associated with "er". When both types of features are present in equal proportions or absent altogether linguists settle for the neutral "es".

No, definitely not. Being a native German speaker I cannot tell you the exact rule (for me its just natural), but it depends on the ending of the noun you are referring to.

E.g., das Mädchen is always "es" even though you know "its" female.

In the above example the guy on TV will have referred to the object as something (like "Ausgrabung") and then used the grammatically correct gender ("sie" in this case).

Suspect the intended humour didn't quite work there RG

I agree as a German: There is no logical rule whatsoever.

There are even differences between Swiss German and high German: Here it is "das Cola" (the coke) while in Germany it is surely "die Cola". Same goes for "das E-Mail" (CH) or "die E-Mail" (D).

But there are some rules though, eg all words ending in -eit (so -heit, -keit etc) -ung are always feminine and die. All alcoholic drinks are "der" except bier which is "das", most wordings ending in "e" are die but there are exceptions such as der Name, das Käse

The above I learned a while ago when learning German but otherwise it just seems to be something you get used to and stop worrying about after a while and the gender seems to become natural, almost instinctive. I have no idea how it gets decided what a new object will be. For example, how did they decide upon the gender of a DVD Player?

So, if even the native German speakers can't agree on this nonsense, I don't see why I should bother with it.

To be fair, quite often it is possible to determine by the suffix of the words what gender is should be.

I,.e. endings -ung, -heit, -keit, etc always feminine, as are MOST (not all!) words ending in -e.
The same applied with (if i remember right) -ent, -ant -and and words deriving from Greek (e.g. Architekt, Demokrat usw).

Hope this helps somewhat.

(To everyone who finds my posts concerning buxom peasant girls inappropriate for a married man - this is one post I really hope Mrs. HTD doesn't read!)


Actually ... The default is der (as in Swiss German der Butter, German German die Butter)

Rule number one for foreigners: if you don't know, use der.

In my more naive days I used to say "der die das xxxx" - but as Louis pointed out, non-Teutonic humour doesn't always go down well with Teutons.

Rule number two for foreigners: don't make jokes about the German language to Germans.

As we all know Germans are rule orientated. If there isn't a rule then they make one, if they feel there might be an exception to a rule at a later date, then they make a rule as to how to proceed in the case of an as yet unknown exception. There is a rule!

Failing that there is a little balding man in the Duden offices in Mannheim who will decide - unfortunately a coin has only two sides so .... now where was that rulebook?

__________________
Pot Kettle Black

nevermind this gender issue.
Can you direct me to your posts on buxom peasant girls please

Ditto, where was that one HTD?

I highly recommend you a book I have: "English Grammar in use". Read it, explain me the Gerund (finally) as well as if-clauses and word order in general. Then I can discuss with you in proper English who is rule oriented... sorry, but I have to rant over this as I can tell you how hard it is to learn "your" grammar. Just looks easy to you.

Since Germany is an engineering country, we made him a dice with two sides of der, die and das each. I guess in other countries they would found a committee instead to discuss the issue, but the dice is way more efficient.

You poor misguided soul - Fowler's "The Kings English" is all a gentleman needs.

I knew Germany had been occupied but I hadn't realise it was classified as a colony.

(lets see who gets that one !!)

Go on then, I'll have a guess - anything to do with enforced usage adoption of the colonising country's language? Now let's see would that be language of the colonisor being imposed upon the colonisee?

I dont, sorry!


I guess I have to stick to the stuff I know and understand...

Macht Dir keine Sorge, ist je alles Banane oder was...

There is absoloutely a rule. All "fremdwörter" are automatically neutral, so it's das Cola and das E-mail.

Of course that should make it also das PC and das Playstation but whatyagunndo?

Sorry, but this is just completely wrong. A lot of Frendwörter are feminin, as a rule all that end on:
-anz die Toleranz, die Distanz
-enz die Konkurrenz, die Differenz
-ie die Theorie, die Industrie
-ik die Technik, die Fabrik
-ion die Organisation, die Produktion
-ur die Reparatur, die Natur
-tät die Qualität, die Universität

That depends. If you say der DVD-Spieler or das DVD-Gerät.. then the Gender is determined by the "unsaid noun"...

In Swiss its s'Coci which then becomes das Cola - in German, die Cola...

In French, usually things ending in -ing are "le" e.g. le windsurfing (la planche a voile)


So I think most native speakers would know from experience or by thinking of the "unsaid noun" what to call a new item

What about Pina Colada? It's a "she" in German ... (probably because it ends in "a")

DVD Player = "der" DVD Spieler ... and a Spieler (Fussballerspieler) happens to be male.