Yes, I agree with you regarding dialects. The point I was trying to make, especially for those who do not live in CH, is that Swiss German in general is not just a language that is reserved for small intimate gatherings, like conversations within families or local townspeople. It is used much more profusely, and it should also be mentioned, it is used with a lot of pride.

High or Standard German is not spoken in Kindergarten or the first years of Elementary School. Customarily, Elementary teachers speak to and teach children in Swiss German. This changes at High School level where only Standard German is spoken.

This inconsistency in language use with regards to the education system, and a tenacity to hold on to Swiss German by their instructors even at the start of children's formative academic years, leads to many students not having a mastery of the Standard/High German by the time they reach High School. Hence the extra lessons in order to reach an acceptable entry level of German.

With regards to your comments about English students, I am assuming you are referring to mother tongue English speakers. Naturally, there are many students regardless of what their mother tongues are that need a little help with grammar in their own languages, but we are not talking about the same thing here.

I am aware of a large group of students who study their academic subjects bilingually in English and Standard/High German. Their exposure to German from the onset was that of Standard/High German by their instructors, and when they played at recess, the German spoken among themselves and with their teachers was also Standard/High German (something not normally practiced in Swiss German Schools where everyone generally reverts to Swiss German outside of the classroom). By the time these students were ready to enter High School, the majority of them had mastered the Standard German sufficiently to pass the entrance exams without need of extra lessons. Of course, there were those that needed help in both English and German grammar to pass, but this was not the average problem.

I understand and can appreciate the pride in speaking and maintaining Swiss German as part of an identity, but as it is neither a Swiss official language, nor an official formal and literary language on its own, nor the German that is learned in the Italian, French or Romantsch speaking areas of Switzerland, then in my opinion, it should not stubbornly continue to be used academically, especially at entry level as it may ultimately only be a setback in the long run for further educational opportunities. If Standard German is what is used in texts, reading and writing skills, if it is used as a Swiss national language, then why use Swiss German at all in schools to begin with?

Yep. My daughters grew up in Swiss German. If they'd had exclusively High German, they'd be in in PG. Maths, French, History, Geography - above their classmates - German - not good enough.

Funny thing. My son who arrived at 10. was put into PG. Doing fine, heading to university.

My eldest daughter, started school in year 1 - is in Secondär.

My youngest daughter - Real.

Independent tests show that they are above average intelligence. For my youngest daughter, she's PG material. But she goes to Real. Why? Because the education system doesn't teach High German early enough and well enough.
If neither parent speaks High German fluently, the Swiss education system will NOT work for your child.

This is not his understanding, it's common sense here in canton zurich. You might argue it's not, but living here in zh everybody would agree on thah feeling.

Your question about Swiss French vs. French French, was dealt with in this thread: Is Swiss French really different from French French?.

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Elie, your answers are impressive. May I ask you a question I've always wondered about ? Is it true that Swiss German is older and is linguistically more pure than High German due to centuries of geographical isolation (Alps) ?

Come on!
It is also my impression and I quote my Swiss partner as a source. It is also the impression of every one of the dozens of Swiss I have discussed this with over the last 20 years...

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There is no widely accepted grammar for Swiss German dialects. People use the dialect on the internet and for SMS all the time though.

The statements that the Swiss care much for the local dialect and that they have an inferiority complex about High German are as generalisations contradictory. If the Swiss tell you this, ask them if they think that way too. They'll often say no which is known as third person effect in the social sciences. I think the "polyglot world travelers" among my compatriots (who encounter German competition at the workplace with a higher probability) are more prone than average to this behaviour.

While the first statement can be observed in everyday life, I think the second one has been exaggerated and recently mixed with feelings and politics regarding German migration in an uncomfortable way.

As for dialect in the school system: Kindergarten has until the beginning of this decade been an environment where Swiss German has been spoken exclusively. In Zurich, Basel-Stadt and Basel-Land there are studies performed about the partial or exclusive use of High German, or it is a step that is already decided but yet has to be introduced. The main intention however isn't to bring High German closer to the Swiss. Pioneering canton was Basel-Stadt which hopes that early High German improves the chances of educational integration for the foreign majority of children in the Kindergartens.

Concerning elementary school, High German is not spoken exclusively but used and taught right from the first grade, and in Zurich it has been like this at least since when I begun school in the late 80s.

The Swiss French are offended by some Swiss' reluctancy to switch to High German. There is a tendency among the Swiss Germans to use different syntax and vocabulary when speaking High German but this is in comparition to the Swiss German/High German difference an irrelevant obstacle.

Thank you for all the responses

[quote=darcy;444502]Calvin,


In general, Swiss Germans feel inferior to those who use high German; they have a chip on their shoulder about it.[/quote]
I like your sense of humor

Be aware also, that in some rural parts of Suisse Romande, you often hear "patois". This is essentially a French dialect and is mostly spoken by the older generation nowadays.

I am wonder why

and I am wonder woman??