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  #21  
Old 05.09.2009, 01:44
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

Just got back from the USA. There I heard Mexicans making fun of US Americans because they said "halapeenos" instead of "khkhkhalapennyos." And after all it's called Spanish because it originally came from Spain. Swiss or Austrian German isn't the standard either; it's German German.
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Old 05.09.2009, 11:17
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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..Swiss or Austrian German isn't the standard either; it's German German.
And where exactly in Germany to you think German German is spoken? I don't doubt you are going to have a hell of a lot of trouble to explain this - regarding the variety of dialects spoken there
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Old 05.09.2009, 11:24
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

Whoever called this Language Forum the Language Corner knew what they were doing!

And in the RED CORNER we have ....
and in the BLUE CORNER we have...

Let's have a clean fight, gloves up and come out fighting...

Last edited by Longbyt; 10.09.2009 at 15:43. Reason: Typo removed. Hurrah for Editor Bob!
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  #24  
Old 05.09.2009, 20:19
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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And where exactly in Germany to you think German German is spoken? I don't doubt you are going to have a hell of a lot of trouble to explain this - regarding the variety of dialects spoken there
Of course you are right, BUT what's considered correct Standard German (i.e. what the Duden dictionaries do not label "Swiss" or "Austrian"; please note that the term "High German" is wrong in this context!) had its origin in Germany and nowhere else. It never was spoken as a regional dialect anywhere, by the way. It evolved from a purley written standard language.

Anyway, if I wanted to find something like the most correct pronunciation of a German word, I wouldn't take my voice recorder to Tyrol or Goms, I'd take it to Germany, somewhere in the mid range between Frankfort and Hannover. If I wanted to hear the really correct pronunciation of a Spanish word, I wouldn't go to Paraguay or Haiti, I'd go to Spain. And that's where "jaib" would be pronounced just like in Swiss German. Case closed.
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Old 05.09.2009, 22:05
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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Of course you are right, BUT what's considered correct Standard German (i.e. what the Duden dictionaries do not label "Swiss" or "Austrian"; please note that the term "High German" is wrong in this context!) had its origin in Germany and nowhere else. It never was spoken as a regional dialect anywhere, by the way. It evolved from a purley written standard language.

Anyway, if I wanted to find something like the most correct pronunciation of a German word, I wouldn't take my voice recorder to Tyrol or Goms, I'd take it to Germany, somewhere in the mid range between Frankfort and Hannover. If I wanted to hear the really correct pronunciation of a Spanish word, I wouldn't go to Paraguay or Haiti, I'd go to Spain. And that's where "jaib" would be pronounced just like in Swiss German. Case closed.
Who decides what is "correct pronunciation"? There is some consensus on correct spelling and correct grammar. But pronunciation?

This is EF. Where in the world is English pronounced "correctly"?
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Old 05.09.2009, 22:14
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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This is EF. Where in the world is English pronounced "correctly"?
Dudley.......
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Old 06.09.2009, 01:55
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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...if I wanted to find something like the most correct pronunciation of a German word...I'd take it to Germany... If I wanted to hear the really correct pronunciation of a Spanish word...I'd go to Spain...
...And if I wanted to find a self-styled "language expert" I now know exactly where to go.
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Old 06.09.2009, 02:31
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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...And if I wanted to find a self-styled "language expert" I now know exactly where to go.
I appreciate your sense of humor. I speak ten languages, seven of them fluently. English, to give you just one example, is my language number five, which means I speak four languages at a higher level than my English. Maybe you have more language expertise to offer ;-?
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  #29  
Old 06.09.2009, 02:55
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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...Maybe you have more language expertise to offer ;-?
Obviously not (especially in your opinion, where the expertise of even native speakers is apparently dwarfed by your own ).
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  #30  
Old 06.09.2009, 03:41
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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Obviously not (especially in your opinion, where the expertise of even native speakers is apparently dwarfed by your own ).
I have no expertise in Spanish. I can fairly easily follow an conversation, even more easily read a text, because I speak four Romance language. That helps a huge lot, but I do not speak it, let alone fluently.

I also know the pronunciation rules of Spanish Spanish, but I stand corrected as to the pronunciation of the "j" in certain parts of Latin America. I have absolutely no problem accepting and admitting that. Life is a constant learning process.

As for Mexico, in my family there is a Mexican blood line, and those folks very clearly pronounce the "j" exactly the way I know it from Spain. I do not rely very much on Wikipedia, but there I just learned that the "h" pronunciation of "j" applies only to minor parts of Mexico.

"In terms of the [x] pronunciation, the articulation in most of Mexico is [x], as in caja [kaxa] ('box'). On the southern coasts, the normal articulation is [h], as in most Caribbean and Pacific coast dialects throughout Latin America." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Spanish#Fricatives

Please note that [x] stands for the representation of that Spanish Spanish "j" in the International Phonetic Alphabet.

I'm not dwarfing anybody or anything, I'm just trying to contribute some of my knowledge. I may be wrong once in a while, and I'm sorry if I hurt your American feeling with my remark concerning the inability of US Americans to correctly pronounce that phonem that is part of so many languages. Although it's true, perhaps that was not very polite, and I apologize for that.

Come on, can't we just bury the hatchet and get back to the topic? Ok, granted, the initial objective of the thread was reached a long time ago, so let's just rest it in peace.
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Old 06.09.2009, 03:56
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

Mr Greybeard, do you have a CV/résumé with a detailed list of the diplomas and/or certifications you have obtained for the various languages you purport to speak more or less fluently available for review? It would allow other members to assess your putatively formidable language skills and hence help alleviate misunderstandings.
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Old 06.09.2009, 04:06
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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...can't we just bury the hatchet ... let's just rest it in peace.
I'm perfectly okay with that. (You didn't hurt my feelings, but thanks for caring.)
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Old 06.09.2009, 05:04
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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Mr Greybeard, do you have a CV/résumé with a detailed list of the diplomas and/or certifications you have obtained for the various languages you purport to speak more or less fluently available for review? It would allow other members to assess your putatively formidable language skills and hence help alleviate misunderstandings.
Sorry I have no diplomas or the like, not concerning languages anyway. After all I never learned that stuff for professional reasons. You can assess my English. When I say it's my number five, you just have to believe me.

I learned five languages in high school (Kantonsschule), some of them up to six lectures a week for up to six and a half years. That was mainly Latin, by the way, not very useful for every-day purposes, unless you are a top brass at the Vatican. Even after that torture no one would have been able to ask for directions to the Forum Romanum in Ancient Rome or for a few additional coat hangers at the tourist hotel in Augusta Raurica.

Anyway, besides truckloads of Latin, those high school languages also included Standard German (in addition to my native Alemannic, so to say), French, Italian and English.

Just for fun I added Romansh (mainly Idiom Vallader of Rumantsch Ladin, i.e. the dialect of the lower Engadine), modern Greek (I spent about two years there), and Dutch, which is totally rusty now because I use it only when changing planes in Amsterdam.

Then there also is an even rustier conglomerate of Scandinavian languages, mainly Danish and Swedish, learned about 40 years ago and hardly ever used since then. No big problem understanding spoken and especially written text, most of it anyway, but my active vocabulary shrunk by at least 90% since the 'seventies. Composing a simple letter takes hours. So I guess I better combine those two to make the equivalent of just one language and do not take them very seriously. Sometimes they are useful, but I shouldn't brag about them.

Oh, and I'm also learning some Anishinaabemowin (Chippewa version of the Algonquian language family). That's pretty difficult, though, because there's very little study material on the market.
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  #34  
Old 06.09.2009, 09:32
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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I have no expertise in Spanish. I can fairly easily follow an conversation, even more easily read a text, because I speak four Romance language. That helps a huge lot, but I do not speak it, let alone fluently.

I also know the pronunciation rules of Spanish Spanish, but I stand corrected as to the pronunciation of the "j" in certain parts of Latin America. I have absolutely no problem accepting and admitting that. Life is a constant learning process.

As for Mexico, in my family there is a Mexican blood line, and those folks very clearly pronounce the "j" exactly the way I know it from Spain. I do not rely very much on Wikipedia, but there I just learned that the "h" pronunciation of "j" applies only to minor parts of Mexico.

"In terms of the [x] pronunciation, the articulation in most of Mexico is [x], as in caja [kaxa] ('box'). On the southern coasts, the normal articulation is [h], as in most Caribbean and Pacific coast dialects throughout Latin America." -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Spanish#Fricatives

Please note that [x] stands for the representation of that Spanish Spanish "j" in the International Phonetic Alphabet.

I'm not dwarfing anybody or anything, I'm just trying to contribute some of my knowledge. I may be wrong once in a while, and I'm sorry if I hurt your American feeling with my remark concerning the inability of US Americans to correctly pronounce that phonem that is part of so many languages. Although it's true, perhaps that was not very polite, and I apologize for that.

Come on, can't we just bury the hatchet and get back to the topic? Ok, granted, the initial objective of the thread was reached a long time ago, so let's just rest it in peace.
... certainly but wouldn't you agree that the Argentinian "J" is so much more fun and imposing than the aspirated Mexican "J" ?

seriously.. I love the different accents of one same language depending on the culture and geography.

Don't apologize, it's interesting to have a new colour.. I find it quite fun to read. I like text that pushs the reader to think, smile or laugh
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  #35  
Old 06.09.2009, 12:02
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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Sorry I have no diplomas or the like, not concerning languages anyway. After all I never learned that stuff for professional reasons. You can assess my English. When I say it's my number five, you just have to believe me.

I learned five languages in high school (Kantonsschule), some of them up to six lectures a week for up to six and a half years. That was mainly Latin, by the way, not very useful for every-day purposes, unless you are a top brass at the Vatican. Even after that torture no one would have been able to ask for directions to the Forum Romanum in Ancient Rome or for a few additional coat hangers at the tourist hotel in Augusta Raurica.

Anyway, besides truckloads of Latin, those high school languages also included Standard German (in addition to my native Alemannic, so to say), French, Italian and English.

Just for fun I added Romansh (mainly Idiom Vallader of Rumantsch Ladin, i.e. the dialect of the lower Engadine), modern Greek (I spent about two years there), and Dutch, which is totally rusty now because I use it only when changing planes in Amsterdam.

Then there also is an even rustier conglomerate of Scandinavian languages, mainly Danish and Swedish, learned about 40 years ago and hardly ever used since then. No big problem understanding spoken and especially written text, most of it anyway, but my active vocabulary shrunk by at least 90% since the 'seventies. Composing a simple letter takes hours. So I guess I better combine those two to make the equivalent of just one language and do not take them very seriously. Sometimes they are useful, but I shouldn't brag about them.

Oh, and I'm also learning some Anishinaabemowin (Chippewa version of the Algonquian language family). That's pretty difficult, though, because there's very little study material on the market.
I believe you, Captain. You are a language enthusiast (like a few here). The forum could do with technical linguistic discussions to counterbalance the threads on US politics and dating. Please keep contributing.
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Old 07.09.2009, 22:31
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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I learned five languages in high school (Kantonsschule), some of them up to six lectures a week for up to six and a half years. That was mainly Latin, by the way, not very useful for every-day purposes, unless you are a top brass at the Vatican. Even after that torture no one would have been able to ask for directions to the Forum Romanum in Ancient Rome or for a few additional coat hangers at the tourist hotel in Augusta Raurica... Anyway, besides truckloads of Latin, those high school languages also included Standard German (in addition to my native Alemannic, so to say), French, Italian and English.
Captain Greybeard, my experience is somewhat similar (although not with as many languages). I studied Latin and some Greek as a boy, only because my mother used to be a Spanish teacher at high school (in Chile this implies "native language"); she herself had to study Latin and Greek in college, and saw it fit that at least one of her children should learn them as well.

I only partially agree with your comment regarding how useful (or not) this ends up being. In my case, Greek and, particularly, Latin, provided a good foundation for better understanding Spanish (especially grammar) and also for learning the rudiments of other romance languages, such as French and Italian. So, while useless in and of itself, Latin provides a good basis for learning / understanding other languages. That is at least my experience.

Thanks for sharing your background. Anybody with the interest and energy to dabble in / learn that many languages deserves my interest and appreciation.
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Old 07.09.2009, 22:36
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

The question posed was Where in the world is English pronounced "correctly"? To this, Dougal's Breakfast answered Dudley. My question is: was this just tongue in cheek (and perhaps Dougal's Breakfast hails from there), or is Dudley really known for their inhabitants pronouncing English in the most correct way? I just want to be educated...
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Old 07.09.2009, 22:45
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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The question posed was Where in the world is English pronounced "correctly"? To this, Dougal's Breakfast answered Dudley. My question is: was this just tongue in cheek (and perhaps Dougal's Breakfast hails from there), or is Dudley really known for their inhabitants pronouncing English in the most correct way? I just want to be educated...
Where in Spain is spanish spoken correctly?
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Old 07.09.2009, 22:50
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

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I only partially agree with your comment regarding how useful (or not) this ends up being. In my case, Greek and, particularly, Latin, provided a good foundation for better understanding Spanish (especially grammar) and also for learning the rudiments of other romance languages, such as French and Italian. So, while useless in and of itself, Latin provides a good basis for learning / understanding other languages. That is at least my experience.
Thank you very much gonzus -- or should I say gonze (vocative)? I totally agree with you as to the meaning of Latin as the foundation for further studies. That's why I wrote, "not very useful for every-day purposes" and even specified that by naming two examples. We are exactly on the same wave-length.

I didn't learn Ancient Greek in school. As I wrote, I learned modern Greek (in Greece), and that when I was about 40. I dare say that I can read ancient texts more easily than most Ancient Greek scholars. Reading the New Testament in its original Koine is not a big challenge. I may need the help of a dictionary once in a while, but that's all. The language has changed very little since Plato, and of course even less since Matthew.

Hey, we are again going off topic. Ok, that doesn't matter any more. After all, your original questions got answered.
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Old 18.12.2015, 19:54
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Re: Help with a couple of sentences

I am bumping up this thread because I need some helps to write one or two sentence(s) (part of a business letter [email]) in English

Basically as it is often the case with medical products, one of our suppliers is asking us to provide the names and addresses of our end-users. We are the distributor.

As we have other competitors that often do business with the same supplier, I would like to tell him that I would kindly give the names of end-users only if he (the supplier) does not share them with our competitors. Since it's a small town, every body knows every body and we may lose market share.

How can I write this sentence in an elegant and very polite way. I don't want to sound rude, as the supplier is a very nice Englishperson.

Many thanks for your help and enjoy your Christmas shopping week-end
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