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  #101  
Old 12.03.2011, 19:27
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

thanks
btw, what is the coniugation of the verb haben? i always see "hend" "het" but don't really know which persons they refer to
i can contribute with the verb "sein"
the differences with high german should be only
du bisch (xii)
er/sie/es isch/ish (xii)
where xii = gewesen = been

and "xeh" = gesehen = seen
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  #102  
Old 12.03.2011, 20:22
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Re: Swiss german to english translation

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Sucht der Wohnung in Zürich?

Looking for flat in Zurich?
Sucht eine Wohnung in Zuerich...lol
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  #103  
Old 12.03.2011, 20:26
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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thanks
btw, what is the coniugation of the verb haben? i always see "hend" "het" but don't really know which persons they refer to
i can contribute with the verb "sein"
the differences with high german should be only
du bisch (xii)
er/sie/es isch/ish (xii)
where xii = gewesen = been

and "xeh" = gesehen = seen
Ich ha
Du haesch
Er/sie haet
Mir (Wir) haend
Ihr haend
sie haend

Ich bin xii
du bisch xii
er/sie sind xii
mir sind xii
ihr sind xii
sie sind xii
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  #104  
Old 12.03.2011, 22:12
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

As always, there is nothing wrong or right with spelling in Swiss German, but one can observe that xii could also be written gsii in order to respect a certain logic (g- as morphem for past particip, like in any other verb). But I am aware of the fact that people do not always dream of being linguists, so keep on writing how you feel like, just be aware of the possibilities and the reasons for them.
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  #105  
Old 12.03.2011, 22:18
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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Later, a standardized "High German" language was created, based on many of these dialects.
Yes, but definitely not based on alemanic. Most of it is middle-saxon or even pure saxon Kanzleisprache (that is east middle-German) with quite some francisque/fränkisch. One can find a little bit of bavarian if one looks carefully, and even less alemanic. SG beneh does not "come from" anything High German, that is right, but it does not mean that it is the other way around either. They both derives from former stage of language. They are cousins. I hope that my rewording of your thoughts helped to put things in the right box.
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  #106  
Old 20.03.2011, 12:42
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

hey guys, do u know what
druff gsässä
means?
gsässä i think is gesessen = to stay sit but "druff"... no idea
thanks!
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  #107  
Old 20.03.2011, 13:48
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

druff = druuf = darauf = on it.
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  #108  
Old 20.03.2011, 13:57
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

everytime i see these explanations i only think: OMG
well, my contribution is: graduus = gradaus = straight ahead (gehen sie graduus = go straight (on the street))

Last edited by superedit; 20.03.2011 at 14:32.
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  #109  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:08
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

In deed, the lack of written norm makes it sometimes more difficult too. A word like druuf has actually a long /u:/ but as a preposition, unaccentuated, it is hard to make a strict differenciation between long and short. Then, even in adverbs, the ambiguity wins. And it is also possible that the long /u:/ has been shortened in "uff" like it is the case in Swabian, because it is a closed syllable (ending with a consonant within the syllable structure). In any case, one has to turn things around a little bit. You'll get the hang of it, keep practicing
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  #110  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:13
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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everytime i see these explanations i only think: OMG
well, my contribution is: graduus = gradaus = straight ahead (gehen sie graduus = go stright (on the street))
Swiss pedant's contribution (remember, all Swiss are pedantic, have no sense of humor, stare at and bump into other people, never apologize, don't know what proper brown sugar is etc. etc.): graduus (Swiss German) = geradeaus (correct Standard German) = straight ahead (Gönd Sie graduus (Swiss German, not all dialects, though) = Gehen Sie geradeaus (Standard German) = Go straight ahead (English, corrected).

What's so OMG? It's just different languages.
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  #111  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:18
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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What's so OMG? It's just different languages.
Not all OMGs are against the Swiss I understand it more like "Oh my god, I could have thought of this linguistic brigde myself, I had noticed it from other words already"-kind of... but I can't read minds.
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  #112  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:21
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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In deed, the lack of written norm makes it sometimes more difficult too. A word like druuf has actually a long /u:/ but as a preposition, unaccentuated, it is hard to make a strict differenciation between long and short. Then, even in adverbs, the ambiguity wins. And it is also possible that the long /u:/ has been shortened in "uff" like it is the case in Swabian, because it is a closed syllable (ending with a consonant within the syllable structure). In any case, one has to turn things around a little bit. You'll get the hang of it, keep practicing
In many languages there is a written norm that doesn't help any or not much anyway. Maybe the worst case is English, where there are far more exceptions than rules, but also German has its problems. You learn that "Wahl" and "Saat" have a long a because of the "h" and the doubling, but the a in "Tal," "Qual," "Grat," and "Salat" is just as long without being marked.
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  #113  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:27
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

But at least, ther are no long vowels followed by double consonant in your list
I agree on the main part though: It's amazing what people think and don't think about when they write, so most of it just depend on the person, not the language or dialect. So we'll never know if that dialect speaker and writer really pronounce uff with a short vowel or with a long one. I can live with that, really.

EDIT: Captain, you write Schwitzertütsch with tz in your profile... do you really pronounce that i short?
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  #114  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:37
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

eheh thanks, no, the omg is because i'm starting to understand something but then immediately i feel i can't understand anything like 2 minutes later
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Old 20.03.2011, 14:43
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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Captain, you write Schwitzertütsch with tz in your profile... do you really pronounce that i short?
Absolutely. Actually, I even ought to spell it "Schwitzertüüttsch", just to emphasize the very, very short "ü." That's the way it was pronounced in St. Gallen City in the fifties through eighties. May have been watered down meanwhile, though.
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  #116  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:47
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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eheh thanks, no, the omg is because i'm starting to understand something but then immediately i feel i can't understand anything like 2 minutes later
I see. Unlike Faltrad, I never took it as something against the Swiss. If I were that sensitive, I wouldn't be here. However, I know that kind of OMG effect from many other languages, so frequent that, for me, it lost its OMG status many decades ago.
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  #117  
Old 20.03.2011, 14:52
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

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I see. Unlike Faltrad, I never took it as something against the Swiss. If I were that sensitive, I wouldn't be here. However, I know that kind of OMG effect from many other languages, so frequent that, for me, it lost its OMG status many decades ago.
i've nothing against the swiss, it's just difficult to speak the language because there is no "grammar or lanuage manual" and guessing all the words is not easy
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Old 20.03.2011, 14:57
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

I misunderstood your reaction Captain, sorry for that. I thought you said there were no reason to be surprised that Swiss German and High German are different. But it was obviously not what you ment. Sorry. My answer was a light trying to be funny one, or at least without drama.

I didn't know the /i/ is short in SG. So acutally Schwitzertütsch. A phenomenon can be added, I have no idea if it is relevant for SG, but it is the emphasise of the consonant after long vowel, thus hyper-long syllable. Like Schwiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiitttttttttttzer. Kind of. This pronounciation is impossible in High German, and hard to codify when writing dialect.
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  #119  
Old 21.03.2011, 10:03
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

Faltrad, maybe your reaction to my reaction (!) was boosted by my earlier remark on this thread concerning the Swiss generally lacking this and generally doing that etc.. Of course, that was meant to be taken with a very big wink too. No problem, then.

As for impossible pronunciation (pretty mean spelling, isn't it? ), as I mentioned above, that's what languages are like. You grow up with a language that sort of shapes your speech organs. That begins deep down in the lungs and ends at your lips.

For instance, the average Zürcher uses much more air pressure on the vocal cords than, say, a Thurgauer. It needs very hard and long practice to change that, which means you may perfectly handle the correct vocabulary, grammar, intonation, vocalisation etc. and still not be able to fool a real Thurgauer. The same applies to Bavarians and Svabians, to name just one other example.

My American OH is a professional writer and journalist, in other words, a very language-minded gal, yet she still is unable to pronounce an ordinary long "e" as in German "See." Even after years, it still sounds like English "say." Same with the long "o" as in "Pol," it still comes out as a diphthong as in English "pole."

That reminds me of Avery Brundage, the then Big Honcho of the International Olympic Committee, who opened the Olympic Games in Munich (1972) with the words (I'm quoting from my Alzheimer-affected memory), "Eeh wunsche allan veelay schöunay Tawgay" ("Ich wünsche allen viele schöne Tage").

Of course that's a frequent problem with any language used by a non-native speaker. Many native German speakers have a problem with modern Greek, where the pronunciation of the Chi ("ch") often seems to be the opposite of the German way. Ok, maybe not that many, because most of them do not get past "mia bira," "evcharistó," "kalí méra," "kalí spéra" and "kali níchta," and with the latter they already have problems because of the "ch."

Practice, folks. Practice. Practice. There's no other way. And even then, you may never achieve perfection. I know English people who speak Swiss German with a very rich vocabulary, impeccable grammar and great style, yet their pronunciation gives their origin away after three words at the very most.

On the other hand, for instance, I'll never speak like a real Michigander. Of course I say "ruff" instead of "roof" and "play-ann" instead of "plan," and I use a plain lateral glottal stop instead of the second "t" in "Detroit." I say "Kripes almidy," know how to pronounce Michillimackinac, and know what "trunk slammers," "the Thumb," "the Big Mac," "da UP," "the Soo" and "the Windsor Ballet" are and I use them correctly, but people still wonder where I hail from. I feel like I belong to those guys (in Michigan, "guys" include females too and may be applied even to a bunch of females!), but I'll never really sound like one of them. I can just try to do my best. Such is life.
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  #120  
Old 29.03.2011, 21:15
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Re: Swiss German to English translations

Second part seems more like: "It is not a traditional German undertaking"
What do you think?
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