[German] language practice thread

[puddycat]

After seeing the number of comments about how tough it is for some to get german practice, I wonder whether people might like the chance to practise their German in a nice comfortable, non-threatening environment with other expats in the same situation.

What do the administrators and masses think about setting up a thread, or section or whatever, where the discussion should be in German, unless using English to clarify meaning?

Let the people speak...

[mark]

A nice, non-threatening environment, like a totally public thread on the internet where mistakes in German are laid bare for all to see?

But seriously, we have a bit of a tough time trying to keep the conversation strictly English only, I'm afraid that a thread totally written in German might lead people who haven't read (or have read) the language policy to think that it might be open season on peppering their posts with German words.

We'll see what kind of response you get with this, and if you are flooded people who do want to do this, then we can re-evaluate.

[Andres]

Sehr gut, und jetzt auf deutsch bitte ! Danke

[puddycat]

	Quote:	mark
	A nice, non-threatening environment, like a totally public thread on the internet where mistakes in German are laid bare for all to see? But seriously, we have a bit of a tough time trying to keep the conversation strictly English only, I'm afraid that a thread totally written in German might lead people who haven't read (or have read) the language policy to think that it might be open season on peppering their posts with German words. We'll see what kind of response you get with this, and if you are flooded people who do want to do this, then we can re-evaluate.

Hey c'mon, people feel free to post very personal threads about their divorce woes ... Saying "Gibst du mir einE Bier, bitte" is hardly going to shame anyone who really wants to practise out. Though perhaps I should amend to "comparatively non-threatening environment"?

In my experience those who really want to practise, but are shy when face to face, would find it less threatening to try their hand on here than, say, approaching their friendly Coop checkout operator for a chat ... or even a german speaking friend for that matter. As was discussed in another thread, people like to be able to use the protection of their avatars if they're in what would normally be a scary social situation. This is why chatrooms are so popular... not because of the charming administrators as you suspected *duck*

Indeed it would have to be made very clear that the section was the only place where German could be used. The referenced policy would and should remain intact for the other sections.

But the point of this forum (from the impression I've got so far) is to help expats integrate... The chance to practise for e.g. German with the help of other willing users who are more linguistically advanced than us newbies would be very beneficial and relevant to the cause ...

As a masters graduate (ok ok, so I still have two papers to go... earning $ won out) in applied linguistics and ESL pedagogy with 7 years experience, I hope others would see the benefits of this kind of opportunity. University bridging programmes try to simulate this kind of environment for their students and earn 100 buck an hour per head for it...

There's no need to shovel all your hard earned CHF down the Migros or Berlitz pan, when you can get the benefits from something like this... You're more likely to retain language learned by talking about what you want on here than talking about "going to the cinema with Fritz and Claudia" as they tend to do in school classes. Don't get me wrong though... classes are all good and helpful to attend...to a point. But having threads at say 3 - 5 varying levels from, "Hallo, meine Name ist Puddycat. Wie geht es dir?" and "Wie sagt man X?", to advanced stuff like, "Ich bin in einem kufladen getreten Bitte nehme mich hart und schnell von hinten!" , would be 100 times more helpful for cementing stuff in our brains. I bet Wednesday went and tried to find out exactly what Planthead meant on that one. I did and the word I wanted to look up wasn't listed ...so it must have been good .

This is the perfect environment to set it up as support for your fellow expats... from the goodness of your expat hearts *cue violins*

But indeed, schauen wir mal... (we'll see).

[Szandor_Nostromo]

	Quote:	puddycat
	After seeing the number of comments about how tough it is for some to get german practice, I wonder whether people might like the chance to practise their German in a nice comfortable, non-threatening environment with other expats in the same situation. What do the administrators and masses think about setting up a thread, or section or whatever, where the discussion should be in German, unless using English to clarify meaning? Let the people speak...

would it be in total german or would there be some kind of translation?

[mark]

Let's not forget that we already have a language corner and quite a few threads that deal with certain aspects of German.

As I understand it you are proposing a thread (or section) to deal exclusively in German conversation?

I'd definitely say no to a dedicated section, we have quite a few areas already and we have to have a lot threads on a subject before we consider a dedicated area.

I think threads along the lines of the one we just had like "What are they saying to me in the shops" might be more useful. People could kick around different variations of conversation for that particular situation, without making the thread German only. When the conversation dies out, a new an interesting topic could be covered.

These threads could be centered on a situation useful for expats, like what kind of words might get thrown at you when you visit your local community office, how to order politely in a restaurant, how to whisper sweet nothings in your lover's ear, how to conduct a meeting.

By keeping a thread specific you might get more interest and by keeping the language mixed you wouldn't put off beginners. My only comment is that there shouldn't be too many of these threads running in parallel - we should start it slowly to see how it goes.

If it becomes popular, then we could consider a dedicated section. Where possible other threads could also be referenced (such as the various guides on German grammar and pronunciation that I've written).

[puddycat]

	Quote:	Szandor_Nostromo
	would it be in total german or would there be some kind of translation?

I was thinking on keeping it mostly English-free by asking and giving explanations in the target language as much as possible. If that fails a quick English translation could be given, but only for one or two words or grammar structures... not whole sentences

There would ideally be several levels, like you would join at a school. You would rate your own level, and if you think you're at beginner level you could join or start a conversation in the beginners section. If you have a little more experience and can build reasonable sentences you would join the next level, if you were mostly fluent in general everyday topics you'd be able to join intermediate level and so on.

Of course there's nothing to stop you from reading all levels as reading more difficult stuff is a good challenge and you can ask questions of the more advanced users. As you get better you can also help/contribute in lower levels of course.

There is always the safety net of noone really knowing who you are so it doesn't matter if you stuff up ... and yes you can ask using English in the language section of this forum which is already established.

Hope this helps...

...And vote "ja, wohl"!

[tomcat]

I will help if I can. German native speaker with 8 years of Texas under my (cowboy) belt.

[Szandor_Nostromo]

	Quote:	puddycat
	There is always the safety net of noone really knowing who you are so it doesn't matter if you stuff up ... and yes you can ask using English in the language section of this forum which is already established. Hope this helps... ...And vote "ja, wohl"!

everyone can easily find out who i am...my profile links to my site and all. no worries...i don't get embarrassed and i have no problem embracing my abilities and aptitude in learning! I usually sit at the front of the class anyway and while i do enjoy playing "reindeer games" i never take things personally...i choose not to live in or with negative energy! ^_^

now i shall cast my vote!

[puddycat]

	Quote:	mark
	As I understand it you are proposing a thread (or section) to deal exclusively in German conversation?

Correct

	Quote:	mark
	I'd definitely say no to a dedicated section, we have quite a few areas already and we have to have a lot threads on a subject before we consider a dedicated area. I think threads along the lines of the one we just had like "What are they saying to me in the shops" might be more useful. People could kick around different variations of conversation for that particular situation, without making the thread German only. When the conversation dies out, a new an interesting topic could be covered.

They are indeed great threads in the language section and they're very helpful. I peruse them regularly. But they don't help with confidence using German etc in more fluent discourse. The nature of the current thread is very passive... Actively using the language in a more natural way is what will cement the stuff in our already overloaded expat brains.

	Quote:	mark
	These threads could be centered on a situation useful for expats, like what kind of words might get thrown at you when you visit your local community office, how to order politely in a restaurant, how to whisper sweet nothings in your lover's ear, how to conduct a meeting. By keeping a thread specific you might get more interest and by keeping the language mixed you wouldn't put off beginners. My only comment is that there shouldn't be too many of these threads running in parallel - we should start it slowly to see how it goes.

Agreed in full. There's no need for these german convos to be about silly rubbish. But I would suggest not just how to say or what words to use but also doing/simulating it. learning info passively is, for most people, useless without getting the chance to actually do it.

	Quote:	mark
	If it becomes popular, then we could consider a dedicated section. Where possible other threads could also be referenced (such as the various guides on German grammar and pronunciation that I've written).

Those guides and other internet resources are great and helpful... but again passive.

[puddycat]

	Quote:	tomcat
	I will help if I can. German native speaker with 8 years of Texas under my (cowboy) belt.

Thanks, Tomcat. That's a mighty fine gesture you made there, partner

[puddycat]

	Quote:	Szandor_Nostromo
	everyone can easily find out who i am...my profile links to my site and all. no worries...i don't get embarrassed and i have no problem embracing my abilities and aptitude in learning! I usually sit at the front of the class anyway and while i do enjoy playing "reindeer games" i never take things personally...i choose not to live in or with negative energy! ^_^ now i shall cast my vote!

Thanks Szandor_Nostromo. Always good to get students like you . A truly rare breed .

[tomcat]

	Quote:	puddycat
	Thanks, Tomcat. That's a mighty fine gesture you made there, partner

Well I reckon that's the least I can offer to all y'all.

[gooner]

Only it wouldn't be speaking, it would be writing. Speaking and writing any language are two different things. If someone is too shy to speak German in the outside world but are OK to 'speak' German here I'm not too sure of the benefits.

Although learning to write a new language is both beneficial and not entirely impossible, I think for most people the focus should be on speaking and using the language in a functional way (like a shopping scenario)

If one ever needs to write German, it's easy enough to whip out a dictionary or even use babelfish to get the correct spelling, if used professionally there will always be someone who can proof read what you've written. Basically, will there ever be any requirement for writing with the same urgent spontaneity that speaking would demand?

[puddycat]

	Quote:	gooner
	Only it wouldn't be speaking, it would be writing. Speaking and writing any language are two different things. If someone is too shy to speak German in the outside world but are OK to 'speak' German here I'm not too sure of the benefits. Although learning to write a new language is both beneficial and not entirely impossible, I think for most people the focus should be on speaking and using the language in a functional way (like a shopping scenario) If one ever needs to write German, it's easy enough to whip out a dictionary or even use babelfish to get the correct spelling, if used professionally there will always be someone who can proof read what you've written. Basically, will there ever be any requirement for writing with the same urgent spontaneity that speaking would demand?

Speaking and writing are of different in the way they are delivered, yes. Their commonality, however, is that they are both active language skills. They require your brain to engage and be productive... Naturally having the opportunity to write as well as speak is going to strengthen your ability to think and produce well on the spot.

One thing about speaking is the trouble people have with quickly establishing what they want to say and how to say it. This process must be done when writing as well. Engage your brain as often as possible in the target language and all skills will improve. There is your benefit.

Language is not about just focussing on one thing and not the other. Well, it can be but it makes the process a damn sight slower and incomplete.

I for one want to get this damned language down pat, so I can understand what the grumpy old bags at the shops say! ...oh, and to contribute fully to society in a functional way .

Out of interest... what do you truly bilingual lot out there say about the accuracy of babelfish etc? I have had people say it's quite inaccurate and gives inappropriate translations. Besides if only it were so simple to translate properly online... tricky things, like words with multiple meanings depending on context and insinuations etc, throw me for a six every time

[puddycat]

	Quote:	gooner
	Although learning to write a new language is both beneficial and not entirely impossible, I think for most people the focus should be on speaking and using the language in a functional way (like a shopping scenario)

By the way, yes the topics should be relevant and useful. Topics of discussion can be started and regulated in the same way as they are now if it is the way admin would have it.

People would be fully welcome to initiate for e.g. a shopping or whispering sweet nothings in their beloved's ear scenario. What ever floats people's boats (and doesn't annoy admin) really.

when I do (rarely) get the chance to skype chat or email friends in German, it's really brilliant for my speaking too, I find. It makes my brain work.

[puddycat]

Thanks to everyone who voted!

Seems there's not a HUGE difference in it, but a difference nonetheless...

Enough to convince admin though? *sweet, pleading, eye-fluttering smile*