Hello,

I'm 16, currently living in the UK and about to begin my A-Levels. I've been looking at universities, and I've been drawn to the undergraduate Physics course at ETH Zurich.

The course is almost entirely taught in German. At this time I don't know a word of German. I am very willing to learn German in my own time over the next two years, and then spend a year in a German speaking country.

I am aware that Swiss German is spoken in Zurich. My first question is whether this course at ETH will be taught in Swiss German or German? My second question is how similar is Swiss German to German? I don't want to spend 3 years learning German and then end up unable to use my German in shops and around Zurich. Basically what I'm asking is how easy it will be to pick up Swiss German if I already know German (baring in mind that I will be living in Zurich).

I don't think that this is really relevant, but: English is my native language, and I know French to GCSE level (if only I'd know I would want to live in Switzerland earlier!).

I hope I've been clear, and thanks in advance for any responses.

- Peter

I don't want to sound negative, and I admire your ambition, but I think this is a really big ask. Bearing in mind, a physics degree in your native language is no walk in the park! If you were already fluent in German it would still be tough, but having no knowledge of the language, at this stage, just as you're about to embark on your A-levels, makes it doubly difficult. Also, it's worth remembering that the course, in common with most on the continent, will have a stronger theoretical bias than the equivalent at a UK university. I found that A-level maths was very poor preparation for a UK physics degree, so you really will have to be strong in this area. On top of all this, you'll probably be away from home for the first time in your life, which can be hard at times. Perhaps you could consider doing an ERASMUS year at ETH instead?

With regard to your questions: At ETH lectures will be in High German (the German that Germans speak), not Swiss German and all Swiss Germans can understand/speak High German. In fact you can survive with English alone, in Zurich, although obviously that's not ideal if you want to mix with the natives!

Anyway, hope this has been of some help and best of luck with your studies.

Did you take a look at what the EPFL has to offer, it's in Lausanne, in the French speaking part of the country and is the "counterpart" of the ETH in Zurich? It might be an easier moutain to climb, so to speak...

Thank you for your responses. I'm very pleased to know that all Swiss Germans understand High German.

I know what you mean 'ukscientist', I may be asking to much. At the moment I basically feel like I have nothing to loose. I can see myself wanting to live in Switzerland when I grow up anyway, whether I go to university there or not. So if I learn as much German as I can in the next 2 years, and decide that even with a year in a German speaking country I would still lack the command of the language to be able to do a Physics course in German, it won't all have gone to waste. What you were saying about the strong theoretical and mathematical bias in ETH Zurich is one of the main reasons why it has seemed so appealing to me.

So as it stands now I think I'll embark on learning German. If I find it interfering with my A-Level studies then it will have to go on the back-burner for a while, but for now I'm going to give it my best shot. If in two years from now I don't feel completely confident that with a year abroad I could do the course, then I'll simply have to choose an English speaking university. As you say, I can always apply to ETH to do a graduate course at a later stage.

Thanks for the info 'ExoticLatic', though I think I would lack the motivation to learn French if I wasn't going to gain absolutely what I wanted - a place at ETH Zurich.

Where is the edit post function on the forums?

you have not yet earned the right to use it yet.

I can tell you that teaching yourself German in two years will still mean that you have the language challenge plus the course challenge at ETH.

What's actually so good about the course that makes you want to choose it? What in the syllabus is better than a UK uni?

Well I would never do the course without first spending a gap year in a German speaking country, so it's more like 2 years of learning and another year of intensive learning. I can see your point though, I would never do the course if I didn't feel confident in the language, I'd want to be at a point where I could focus purely on the course content.

http://www.phys.ethz.ch/phys/students/details_bachelor - As I mentioned before, you can see that the course contains a lot of Mathematics, something that in general the UK universities seem to shy away from on their Physics courses. It's not only that I enjoy the Mathematics, but also that I think it's extremely important when it comes to understanding theoretical Physics. Aside from the syllabus itself, I think that Switzerland (and ETH in particular) would be a really exciting place to study Physics. I want to go to a university which has great research, because it usually means that the lecturers are enjoying what they are doing, and makes the whole learning experience more exhilarating. ETH has this great research. Physics also seems to be a very active subject in Switzerland at the moment, with projects such as the particle physics laboratory in Cern.

I want to go to a university where I can live Physics for 3 years, the UK universities I have visited so far haven't felt like they could give me that opportunity. When I visited MIT a while ago it gave me that feeling, and I could see that the students and the academics were excited by their work and the work was their only focus. I think ETH will be the same.

Hey Peter,

I'm happy to hear that you're planning to study Physics at ETH! I can only recommend it, especially if you're looking forward to learn serious Maths. Unfortunately I can't report on the details of the course as it is at present, as I'm not too familiar with the changes introduced by the Bologna reform (Bachelor/Master system) within the Maths/Physics departments. However if you've got questions, feel free to message me.

Concerning the language: prior to going to Zurich my only experience in German was at school. Unfortunately I must say that despite pretty good grades in German and 6 years of courses, I did have quite a bit of trouble in following the lectures in the first few weeks. Then again it was my first experience in a German-speaking area, and if you're planning to spend a year in a German-speaking country first, this might be a problem you will not have. You might however feel reassured by the fact that lecturers would write virtually everything they said on the blackboard and/or provide a script of the lecture; so even though you weren't able to follow the course, you could always go back to your notes copied from the blackboard and/or script (provided of course that you can understand written German!). Moreover consider that in a Maths/Physics course you won't be challenged by a huge vocabulary (compared to, say, a Law course): it'll take you a while, but once you understand what Ableitung, Annahme, Beweis mean you've covered pretty much the whole vocabulary you need to know! (Btw: Ableitung = derivative, Annahme = assumption, Beweis = proof.) A tip for the start would be to look for the Swiss-French and the Swiss-Italian groups of students, as they will be having similar language problems as yours. Be aware however that by spending too much time with them you might end up not improving your German at all! (From my own experience: during my first year in Zurich I improved my French rather than my German!)

What I've written above is not to give you the impression that it's going to be easy for you, but certainly not impossible if you put a lot of effort in learning German. The main advantage of studying Physics at ETH is that you'll get a top notch education without having to pay big tuition fees. In the UK, you'd really have to go to top Universities such as Cambridge or possibly Imperial College to get a similar education (bear in mind that I haven't been to either, although I have seen course material of various lectures of the Part III in Cambridge). In any case, although I do recommend ETH for Physics, be sure to have a look at the curriculum especially if you already have specific ideas of which areas of (Theoretical?) Physics interest you the most: ETH tends to be rather conservative and possibly "mainstream" from the point of view of research topics.

I'm sorry: I've digressed... In the end you're 16 and you've still got plenty of time... So don't forget to have fun! (And that's what Physics should be anyway!)

Have you considered MIT, Harvard, or Cambridge University?

They are all considered topnotch in the world, and...

They teach in English.

Oh, nevermind. You have then. If you have questions about MIT feel free to PM me.

Hi Peter

Good luck with your studies, it sounds like quite a challenge.

i don't mean to be rude but have you really exhausted all opportunities at university in the UK? I went to Imperial College (a very long time ago), I studied Chemical Engineering, the course was super-challenging and all the students were at a very high standard. I had the opportunity to do a year in France, and as such I was given technical French classes up to a very high standard of French. Some people went to Aachen and similarly they were taught advanced German prior to departure.

Are you certain that you wouldn't get the A level grades to go somewhere like that, or Cambridge, Oxford, Edinburgh, Manchester and other places in the UK that offer really excellent Physics courses? Imperial offered Theoretical Physics, and the people I know who read Physics at Oxford found it extremely theoretical and extremely difficult. The research in Imperial is amongst the top ranked in the world and the lecturers I had are the leaders in their fields, world renowned and respected. I also know people from several UK universities (UCL, Cambridge, Imperial etc) who have spent time at Cern - where the language spoken tends to be English.

These universities easily compare with MIT and the like in the States and are much cheaper. When you say you haven't been impressed with the places you have visited, where did you visit?

Anyway best of luck with your studies

Thank you all for your replies; I've been away on holiday so I haven't had a chance to respond until now.

I found 'Tschortscho' post particularly enlightening, and gave me hope that it might be possible. I nevertheless understand that even with lecture notes and much of the course being taught in the universal language of mathematics, if my German is not to a high standard I will have a lot of trouble, and the language barrier will be an unnecessary disadvantage to me from the start.

So if university decisions come round and I'm not confident that I can learn German to that standard, I will go to one of the alternatives. As I mentioned before, my A-Level results may or may not be good enough for Oxbridge, I will certainly apply but I don't think Oxbridge is right for me. I am still yet to go round Edinburgh and Imperial College which are both on the agenda.



As it stands I imagine I will end up applying to (not in order):

Kings College Cambridge
Edinburgh
Imperial College
[insert other university with good Physics department and low entry requirments - incase my A-Level results are poor]

ETH Zurich

MIT (although if I were to get in - which is unlikely - I would have a major financial problem)


To answer 'sarahw' I've been with an engineering course called Smallpiece Trust to Durham University, Kings College Cambridge, Churchill College Cambridge and Southampton. On the courses you spend a few days at the university going to lectures (sometimes from people in the Physics department). You get a feel for what a place is like, what drives the staff, and the students too. My dad is an academic so a university is always a place of interest whenever we visit a city, so I generally do get an idea of what the different univerisities offer in their courses. The course plan is also a major indicator to me as to what to expect from that university,

Anyway, everything in this post is subject to change, thankfully no decisions need to be made yet. I thank you all again for the help you've given me, much of which is invaluable.