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  #41  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:23
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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I have been fired without having been giving any previous warning. The reason? My boss found a yonger and cheaper replacement.
Was this in the UK? If not, then your reply to my comment isn't relevant. If it was, what did you do about it?
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  #42  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:26
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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I have been fired without having been giving any previous warning. The reason? My boss found a yonger and cheaper replacement.
Told you in another thread already that you were mighty stupid to not get legal help then.

That was assuming it was fired in "pack your bags, leave and you'll never see a cent from us again". But certainly not a "here's your termination letter, leave, but we'll be paying you for three months".

And it was assuming that you were actually telling the truth cause if your threads are any indication, every imaginable thing related to work, contracts and termination/firing seems to happen to you...
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  #43  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:33
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Was this in the UK? If not, then your reply to my comment isn't relevant. If it was, what did you do about it?
No, it was here in CH. What I did about it? Nothing - what can I do?
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  #44  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:35
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Told you in another thread already that you were mighty stupid to not get legal help then.

That was assuming it was fired in "pack your bags, leave and you'll never see a cent from us again". But certainly not a "here's your termination letter, leave, but we'll be paying you for three months".

And it was assuming that you were actually telling the truth cause if your threads are any indication, every imaginable thing related to work, contracts and termination/firing seems to happen to you...
You are being rather harsh, don't you think? Just how will legal advice help me? I have read so many other threads here which suggest that this is just a waste of money. I have been fired and am now working out the three month notice period.
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  #45  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:44
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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No, it was here in CH. What I did about it? Nothing - what can I do?
In British English, you weren't fired but made redundant. You can decide to call it "fired" if you so wish, but it doesn't alter what actually happened.
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  #46  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:45
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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You are being rather harsh, don't you think? Just how will legal advice help me? I have read so many other threads here which suggest that this is just a waste of money. I have been fired and am now working out the three month notice period.
That is not being fired in the sense I outlined above!

This is precisely why I keep insisting there is a difference between being fired and being terminated or made redundant or however you want to call it. You were not asked to leave immediately. Your contract was terminated and you need to work out your notice period in exchange for your salary. To keep working is your contractual obligation, to get a salary is your company's obligations, though sometimes they send you on garden leave with full pay. This is legal. Always, with a small number of exceptions. Any time - with a small number of exceptions. No explanation or reason necessary.

If you on the other hand were fired without notice - meaning someone came up to you and said, Dack Rambo, here's your box with your stuff, there's the door, leave your badge here, you won't see another Rappen of us as of immediately, just get out of my face - but claim you have done "nothing wrong" and "were not warned", then yes, THAT is a reason to get legal help.

The two are fundamentally different situations. I don't know how many hundred times this has to be explained. It's not that difficult to understand.
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  #47  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:49
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Who said anything about the OP being a she?
I assumed it was a man and having just checked the profile that would appear to be the case.
Yeap I am a "He".bthw what does "OP" stand for ? Thanks.
G
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  #48  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:54
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Yeap I am a "He".bthw what does "OP" stand for ? Thanks.
G
Original Poster.
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  #49  
Old 07.11.2016, 17:58
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Are you going to leave your unemployment benefit (RAV) behind? It's 80% of the salary, limited to 148k CHF, if I'm not mistaken. It's a good sum to live comfortably for a year.
Thank you all for your helpful comments. Your comments make me feel I am not alone. Thank you so much.
What I am hearing is that I should stay and claim RAV. This will give me the much needed breathing space. I am still undecided.

It's highly unlikely I will get a another job in CH as I am a "specialist" in the mid fifties and there are few industries that would employ me.

G (OP)
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  #50  
Old 07.11.2016, 18:01
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Thank you all for your helpful comments. Your comments make me feel I am not alone. Thank you so much.
What I am hearing is that I should stay and claim RAV. This will give me the much needed breathing space. I am still undecided.

It's highly unlikely I will get a another job in CH as I am a "specialist" in the mid fifties and there are few industries that would employee me.
What are the logical reasons for not staying and claiming RAV and trying to find a job for 18 months?
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  #51  
Old 07.11.2016, 18:04
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Thank you all for your helpful comments. Your comments make me feel I am not alone. Thank you so much.
What I am hearing is that I should stay and claim RAV. This will give me the much needed breathing space. I am still undecided.

It's highly unlikely I will get a another job in CH as I am a "specialist" in the mid fifties and there are few industries that would employ me.

G (OP)
Is there no route for fighting to keep your job? Sounds like they will try to recruit someone in your place which is going to be a headache for them, never mind expensive.

Did they try to "integrate" you or even start some kind of appraisal or feedback process so you could see the way they were starting to think? Or was it just out of the blue?
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  #52  
Old 07.11.2016, 18:10
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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What are the logical reasons for not staying and claiming RAV and trying to find a job for 18 months?
I'd imagine the school fees alone would be a big dent in his budget. Add to that medical insurance, rent, and suddenly the RAV money does not stretch that far.
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  #53  
Old 07.11.2016, 18:10
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

Give it a try! Same age bracket, also rather specialized, also lost my job last year and managed to find something new. Not as interesting as my previous job, not as well paid (actually a lot less), but still a job that gives me a chance to look around for other jobs and keeps me fed.


Good luck!
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  #54  
Old 07.11.2016, 18:11
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Thank you all for your helpful comments. Your comments make me feel I am not alone. Thank you so much.
What I am hearing is that I should stay and claim RAV. This will give me the much needed breathing space. I am still undecided.
So here's the thing. If you're still signed off sick - an information you volunteered only today - you need to look into this in more detail. The Krankentaggeldversicherung (sickness insurance) sometimes pays up to 2 years even if you lose your job (again, two different processes). This depends on the type of contract your (still current) employer has with them.

So what exactly is the situation?
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  #55  
Old 07.11.2016, 18:42
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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I'd imagine the school fees alone would be a big dent in his budget. Add to that medical insurance, rent, and suddenly the RAV money does not stretch that far.
Exactly this. School fees for three kids would make a huge dent in the monthly income and the kids are not of an age where they can just be slotted into local schools.
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  #56  
Old 07.11.2016, 23:36
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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Made redundant - job function is being removed, no budget, project has ended and function lost etc. In the UK one can't be made redundant without a reason similar to the above otherwise the (ex) employee can claim compensation. In fact, the employer often has to prove that despite the above there are no other siutable positions within the company for the (ex) employee.

Fired - broke company rules or law, such as stealing something. Unless the company can prove the reason for being fired is serious, previous written warnings must have been given (e.g. for turning up late).

In Switzerland, being made redundant can be done for any reason, and will mean notice is given and RAV (if applicable) starts from the first day of unemployment, barring the standard RAV delay for those earning more than a certain amount. Being fired would mean marched out of the door, no notice given, very bad reference, and a RAV penalty equivalent (I assume) to if one had just quit of their own accord.

US English tends to use "fired" for both scenarios as America has little in the way of employee protection or unemployment support so little care is made about the distinction.
Your talking about fired without notice, not the same as being fired because your crap at your job
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Old 08.11.2016, 00:07
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

I was fired as a money saving exercise, I ended earning 150% of salary from that company for the next 3 months as I insisted in charging 1500 a day plus 8.66% holiday pay. They assumed I would work for 500 For the next 3 years I earned 50% on average for 3 days a month, it suited me down to the ground. They then went bankrupt rather sadly.
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Old 08.11.2016, 12:32
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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So here's the thing. If you're still signed off sick - an information you volunteered only today - you need to look into this in more detail. The Krankentaggeldversicherung (sickness insurance) sometimes pays up to 2 years even if you lose your job (again, two different processes). This depends on the type of contract your (still current) employer has with them.

So what exactly is the situation?
I was sick for 8 months or so. On my return at 50%, was given one assignment to do. I did a great job on it as per feed back from everyone including other managers. However, my boss was not impressed without giving me any concrete feedback. All the boss said was that it was not up to standard! The next I know is that the integration manager tells me I'll be given notice. So told her I was asked to do one piece of work which I worked very hard on and got great feed back but the boss did not give me any specific feedback but deemed it substandard and now I get informed of the notice. They even sent me an email to that effect. So I tell the integration manager that I might seek legal advice as I did not get any real feedback. An hour later the boss sends me an email with an impossible assignment in 3.5 days. Not only that but tells the colleagues that I've been given a test and to not help me!! I could not cope with this sort of treatment as my reputation went before me and in a thrice its been destroyed. I felt humiliated and wanted to end my life. Thats when my doctor wrote me off 100%. I still have nightmares, sleepless nights and wake of sweating.
Frankly, just can't cope now....
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  #59  
Old 08.11.2016, 12:36
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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An hour later the boss sends me an email with an impossible assignment in 3.5 days. Not only that but tells the colleagues that I've been given a test and to not help me!! I could not cope with this sort of treatment as my reputation went before me and in a thrice its been destroyed. I felt humiliated and wanted to end my life. Thats when my doctor wrote me off 100%. I still have nightmares, sleepless nights and wake of sweating.
Frankly, just can't cope now....
Don't know how to help but, jesus, don't blame yourself on that. That is SO unprofessional! Who do they think they are giving you a bound-to-fail "test" and stopping colleagues from providing any assistance. What does that even achieve?
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  #60  
Old 08.11.2016, 14:32
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Re: Leaving Switzerland, advice needed, please!

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I was sick for 8 months or so. On my return at 50%, was given one assignment to do. I did a great job on it as per feed back from everyone including other managers. However, my boss was not impressed without giving me any concrete feedback. All the boss said was that it was not up to standard! The next I know is that the integration manager tells me I'll be given notice. So told her I was asked to do one piece of work which I worked very hard on and got great feed back but the boss did not give me any specific feedback but deemed it substandard and now I get informed of the notice. They even sent me an email to that effect. So I tell the integration manager that I might seek legal advice as I did not get any real feedback. An hour later the boss sends me an email with an impossible assignment in 3.5 days. Not only that but tells the colleagues that I've been given a test and to not help me!! I could not cope with this sort of treatment as my reputation went before me and in a thrice its been destroyed. I felt humiliated and wanted to end my life. Thats when my doctor wrote me off 100%. I still have nightmares, sleepless nights and wake of sweating.
Frankly, just can't cope now....
I feel terribly sorry for you. With time I hope things will not seem so bad. Try and live in the present and don't worry about the future for now. Being on RAV is not so bad and it gives you time to relax and think. Most RAV staff are kind people and will do their best to help you.
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