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Old 17.09.2009, 00:46
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Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

I was born in Australia and raised in Switzerland.
At the age of 25 I moved to Australia and spent 8 years there and then another 2 years here.

Now I am seriously thinking of moving back to Australia permanently.
I feel very uncomfortable with the communistic( fashist) way of life here.
Compulsory health care, compulsory schooling, kindergarten, what's next? Compulsory flu vaccine? Compulsory everything. It seems like the State wants to dictate the entire life from birth to death. I absolutely cannot imagine, having kids in CH, because from the day they are born, they are effectively government property. I would have no choice to school them when I would feel is right for them. The government would take away my kids if I did not school them WHEN and HOW the government wants. I am aware that in Australia there is compulsory schooling as well(yes Rockefellers & CO. got a grip there too), but it is not being executed as strictly as here.

Further, CH is massively overpopulated and in any event of crisis unable to feed itself.
For the record: During WWI and WW2 the Swiss population was about 3 million and it could just barely feed itself. Now with 7 million, no chance. Switzerland today is absolutely reliant on food imports or it would starve.

With my income I will probably never be able to have a house and some land in CH. I would be growing old in properties that are being owned by someone else. In my view, a own house, own land and a government who does not interfere in raising children are absolut minimum standards.
Well those standards are gone here, as in many parts of Europe.

This is just a summary of thoughts from a Swiss who has been personally studying these things since he got released from the "childrens indoctrination camp"(school)
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Old 17.09.2009, 01:58
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

I think you should follow your gut feeling and go where your heart dictate's.

Good luck.
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Old 17.09.2009, 05:40
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

G'day Mate! good move I reckon, no worries seems to be the way of thinking...seems a lot of Swiss "Just Worry" sickness, security, health,money.

I hear where you coming from. I may be not far behind you with a 6 pack and a surf board.

I have a house down under and love it living in a relaxed country-But there are also issues whereever you are. Your like me and can choose, many cannot! LUCKY.
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Old 17.09.2009, 07:53
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

Well, it's up to you, but I can think of many better reasons to move back to Australia than the ones you gave.

Regarding compulsory things - in Australia you have compulsory bike helmets, higher taxes, still compulsory school, max 110 kmh on the highways, have to pay your doctor/dentist etc bills before you leave the clinic, be always suspected by restaurants/companies that you will try not to pay your bills, be subjected to constant health warning, shock ads and other nanny state exhortations.

You get, in essence, compulsory health care there through your taxes.

Moving to another country because of the possibility of such a massive crisis that worldwide trade would break down and other nations would no longer accept Swiss Francs or gold is bleak. Why not fly out just before the **** hits the fan? But if such a crisis were to hit, I'm not sure Australia will do so well. It's running out of water, agriculture is increasingly tenuous and is very much trade-dependent too.

Australian house prices are almost the highest in the world (if not the highest) when compared to disposable incomes. They will come down massively in a few years' time, but moving to Australia to benefit from housing costs is not something I would recommend. It's the world's biggest remaining housing bubble.

I can only imagine you desperately want to home-school, but you can do that in some cantons in CH, under certain conditions.

Well, good luck with your choosing. But don't fool yourself that Australian kids are any less indoctrinated than Swiss ones... it's just that they're indoctrinated towards individual gratification and consumerism via the housing and career ladders. Or maybe it's the media there that causes this, I haven't thought so much about it.
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Old 17.09.2009, 08:33
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

I agree with most of Tantrum's points about Australia. I'm not going to make a counter list about Switzerland, but in my opinion Australia still wins for me. I'll be shifting back next year. I've found the things that I love about Switzerland are rather "touristic" and I enjoy 2/7 days a week, the things I don't like bug me 5/7 days a week. Everyone has a different experience and criteria though.

As for not pursuing mandatory schooling.......
http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-...hool-his-kids/
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Old 17.09.2009, 08:55
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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I was born in Australia and raised in Switzerland.
At the age of 25 I moved to Australia and spent 8 years there and then another 2 years here.

Now I am seriously thinking of moving back to Australia permanently.
This is just a summary of thoughts from a Swiss who has been personally studying these things since he got released from the "childrens indoctrination camp"(school)
Having been born and raised (a little bit further) downunder myself, I'm fully aware of the relaxed and free lifestyle in Australia/NZ - It definitely has its advantages: Despite the lack of stress and pressure, we still manage to keep ourselves together without letting the country turn in to a slum. We have freedom and acceptance of differences in a way that is only 'talked about' here. Sure people want to make progress in their careers, buy a house and have a nice lifestyle, but Aussies and Kiwis, as I've observed, are content with far less than people are here - There isn't such pressure to have the biggest and best of everything. Even then, if they do have a bit more than the rest, there isn't as big a tendency to flaunt it.

Another issue that seems to be arising in CH is that the younger generation is not so willing to educate themselves and work as hard as previous generations. Mummy and daddy have earned the big bucks and they look to the relaxed lifestyles of other cultures and figure they quite like the idea of chilling out and "riding the gravy train".

One thing I have to admire about the Swiss and Germans (I'm not so sure about the other European cultures) is that they have a more sensible approach to money and investment. Australasians do indeed have a huge housing bubble/personal deficit problem - Everyone wants nice houses, cars and clothes, but they tend to rely more on huge bank loans and credit cards rather than planned savings or solid investments to get them - The average Joe just wants to work his 40 hours get his wages and go home for a BBQ and a beer. Though maybe the younger generations here will start having to rely on such things when Mummy and Daddy's CHF runs out?

I also have to admit that the (NZ at least) clean green image needs some TLC - We tend to assume that it has always been clean and green so it will stay that way, even if we continue buying crappy cars and driving them everywhere instead of cycling or walking. The Swiss in particular are pretty good in that respect.

The local governments in Switzerland work quite well, I think. Right down to the Gemeinde (community) level the Swiss (not us stinking foreigners though ) can really play an active roll in contributing to and improving their own village, town or city. Switzerland is seemingly divided with all of its Kantons and 'walled-off' villages etc, but the people do have a choice. It's just such a shame that there is such outward negativity between the Kantons and eachother. I still haven't figured out whether it's just piff taking and *friendly* rivalry or not, but I get the impression that it's culturally indocrinated intollerance of others.

Either way, good luck with your endeavours. I'm sure you'll make the best decision for you and yours. Australia's a pretty cool place really... Some of the Australians are alright too, I guess

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Old 17.09.2009, 08:58
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

Last I checked health care and education where parts of the rights of a child. IMO it should not be optional
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Old 17.09.2009, 09:01
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

i have been in Australia begin of January and I have to say Life is more easy there. But i don t think Switzerland is so bad compare to some other really bad country in Europe or Around the World now When i went in Australia i loved it but i could never always leave there. Now it's up to you
Do it what you think it's the best to u. The life is too short ... And if u can't imagine your future here ...

Good luck
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Old 17.09.2009, 09:02
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

Long working hours, consumerism and the housing obsession, high tax rates (and getting nothing for it), aggression and crime are the reasons I'll never go back.

House prices in Sydney are insane. Our Swiss house would have been more expensive in an equivalent location in Sydney.

In Australia, schooling is compulsory. My half-sister was home schooled and child services did interfere and carried out many checks over the years.

My grandparents called an ambulance a couple of times and were then removed from their own home and put into a nursing care because the state said they could no longer care for themselves. After looking over their savings, they didn't qualify for state care and are forced to pay for private care - and pay a CHF 200k deposit per person. Funny how if they had of p*ssed all their savings up the wall they would have qualified.
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Old 17.09.2009, 09:27
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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Long working hours, consumerism and the housing obsession, high tax rates (and getting nothing for it), aggression and crime are the reasons I'll never go back.
Marie, could you please elaborate on the "long working hours" quote, as you have said this in quite a few posts over time, and it doesn't fit with my experience.

OK I'm from hickville Perth, but have worked in private (40 hours per week) and semi-governement and private (37.5 hours per week) over the last 20 years. If longer hours were required, it was as paid overtime or time off in lieu, not unpaid. The only people I saw working longer "unpaid" hours were those playing the careerist corporate ladder game (accountants, lawyers, stockbrockers etc) and this was done by choice for perceived future benefits in their chosen career.

In Switzerland the standard full time working week seems to be 42 hours (my contract says 48!) and plenty of people I know are doing longer unpaid. Productivity is questionable though!
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Old 17.09.2009, 09:46
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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Marie, could you please elaborate on the "long working hours" quote, as you have said this in quite a few posts over time, and it doesn't fit with my experience.

In Switzerland the standard full time working week seems to be 42 hours (my contract says 48!) and plenty of people I know are doing longer unpaid. Productivity is questionable though!
I found the work culture to be much more demanding in Sydney than London or here. I've worked in many different industries as a software developer. The workload that I was given meant that I couldn't finish my work and leave when my hours were done. Bi-weekly progress meetings being counter productive because I could have been working during those hours and being given work late in the day that had to be done by the next day. My colleagues here just get up and go home when their hours are done.

50 hours plus are expected in many jobs in Sydney. 40 hours contracted and then unpaid overtime to get the extra work done. My husband was doing 70 hours a week for a legal firm in while living in Melbourne - including all nighters to get things finished. Demands that were placed on him by the client who wanted progress fast, but he was paid by the hour.

Then there's the fact that we would both need to work full time in Sydney just to make ends meet. We have both been working part-time for quite a few years now and we manage just fine.
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Old 17.09.2009, 10:41
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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...I feel very uncomfortable with the communistic( fashist) way of life here.... With my income I will probably never be able to have a house and some land in CH. I would be growing old in properties that are being owned by someone else. In my view, a own house, own land and a government who does not interfere in raising children are absolut minimum standards.
Well those standards are gone here, as in many parts of Europe...
I can tell you've never lived outside a wealthy, Western nation. You've never had it so good. I'm sure Australia would welcome your exclusive social attitude
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Old 17.09.2009, 10:51
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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I can tell you've never lived outside a wealthy, Western nation. You've never had it so good. I'm sure Australia would welcome your exclusive social attitude
Yes, we are fortunate to be choosing between two of the highest ranked "standard of living" places in the world. This little conservative does appreciate the minor "socialistic" polices that help maintain both countries societal frameworks.
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Old 17.09.2009, 11:19
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

Wow! I didn't expect so many responses!
Thanks guys and gals!

@ NickH: You said: education is a right, and it should not be optional.
I strongly disagree. A right is the option to choose it, not to be forced into. If I have kids in the future and they WANT to go to the state school, by all means I would not stop them. It's just if they experience school as a prison the way I did, I would certainly not want to force them.

I did not know of any homeschooling options in certain cantons in CH, so I need to have a look into that.

I have not made my decision yet, but I am leaning towards moving to the Northern Territory, possibly next year when the dry season starts.
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Old 17.09.2009, 11:47
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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I can tell you've never lived outside a wealthy, Western nation. You've never had it so good. I'm sure Australia would welcome your exclusive social attitude
I'm not sure I got your point.

Social services are a bait and lead to fashism. Who pays, rules. The more people expect someone else( a government) to pay for their services, the more the government will make rules over them.

I believe in self-responsibilty.
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Old 17.09.2009, 12:02
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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I'm not sure I got your point.

Social services are a bait and lead to fashism. Who pays, rules. The more people expect someone else( a government) to pay for their services, the more the government will make rules over them.

I believe in self-responsibilty.
This thread is a bait

Social services lead to facism? The yellow brick road leads to Oz.

Enjoy your return to the Outback.
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Old 17.09.2009, 13:01
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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Well, it's up to you, but I can think of many better reasons to move back to Australia than the ones you gave.

Regarding compulsory things - in Australia you have compulsory bike helmets, higher taxes, still compulsory school, max 110 kmh on the highways, have to pay your doctor/dentist etc bills before you leave the clinic, be always suspected by restaurants/companies that you will try not to pay your bills, be subjected to constant health warning, shock ads and other nanny state exhortations.

You get, in essence, compulsory health care there through your taxes.

Moving to another country because of the possibility of such a massive crisis that worldwide trade would break down and other nations would no longer accept Swiss Francs or gold is bleak. Why not fly out just before the **** hits the fan? But if such a crisis were to hit, I'm not sure Australia will do so well. It's running out of water, agriculture is increasingly tenuous and is very much trade-dependent too.

Australian house prices are almost the highest in the world (if not the highest) when compared to disposable incomes. They will come down massively in a few years' time, but moving to Australia to benefit from housing costs is not something I would recommend. It's the world's biggest remaining housing bubble.

I can only imagine you desperately want to home-school, but you can do that in some cantons in CH, under certain conditions.

Well, good luck with your choosing. But don't fool yourself that Australian kids are any less indoctrinated than Swiss ones... it's just that they're indoctrinated towards individual gratification and consumerism via the housing and career ladders. Or maybe it's the media there that causes this, I haven't thought so much about it.

You got it right tantrum. In WA things might be more relaxed but in the bigger cities like Melbourne and Sydney violence and racist attacks are ski high, murders going through the roof, and the government bringing in higher taxes to alcohol to try and curb the anti social behaviour of the young.

Life in Melbourne is basically living in a nanny state. Everyone expects the government to be there to fix everything, whereas people will not take responsibility for their own actions. Life here is aggressive, highly stressed and food prices are just as high if not higher than in Switzerland.

OP, would gladly swap with you. The only thing that keeps me here is the regular (albeit stressful) work.
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Old 17.09.2009, 13:39
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

Have you been reading Ayn Rand lately?


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I'm not sure I got your point.

Social services are a bait and lead to fashism. Who pays, rules. The more people expect someone else( a government) to pay for their services, the more the government will make rules over them.

I believe in self-responsibilty.
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Old 17.09.2009, 21:44
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

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This thread is a bait

Social services lead to facism? The yellow brick road leads to Oz.

Enjoy your return to the Outback.

LOL! You know nothing!
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Old 17.09.2009, 22:04
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Re: Thinking of moving "back" to Australia for good...

basically, where-ever you go, you take your own effluent with you.

there are pros and cons in all countries - house prices may be cheaper in Oz, but incomes are less.

and having a house is not the be-all and end-all.

if you need a change of scene, by all means make the move.. but in 5 years you may see that the ocean may not indeed be greener from that side of the Tasman...


that saying may be lost on some - the Tasman Sea is what divides Australia and New Zealand, and grass is that which is usually greener when viewed from the other side of the fence..
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