Dear Forum,

I was relocated back to the U.S. by my employer in October 2006. Since notice to the Property Management company was not given September 30th, 2006, I paid rent until March 2007 obeying Swiss law. Subsequently, my employer reimbursed me for the additional rent. During the month of October, I worked very hard with the Property Management firm to find a tenet even splitting the cost of a large banner to advertise the vacancy.

Fourteen months later, January 2008, I received a bill from the Property Management firm for the apartment heating from November 2006 to March 2007 for 1229 CHF. I sent the Property Management firm a registered letter questioning the length of time before the invoice was received, the fact that the heat was still on in a vacant apartment, plus a number of other issues. They never responded so I did not pay the bill.

With all of the above in mind, I have the following questions:

1) Is there a limit to how long to you can still receive a bill for an apartment after leaving Switzerland?
2) I notified the electric company in person that I was vacating the apartment in October 2006. I am assuming the electricity was turned off in the vacant apartment? In other words, why is there a heating bill for a vacant apartment in the first place?
3) How can I find out if this bill is on my record in Switzerland?

I need to know because I may receive an attractive offer to return to Switzerland in a different Canton than above.

Thanks,

Dave

The costs are usualy split between each tennat.

If you don't pay, it will be noted on a federal level, ie in every canton

Pay the amount owed, especially if you're planning on returning to Switzerland. Heating charges are done annually here so it is very possible for a year to pass before receiving the bill.

Regarding question 2 - the heat would need to be kept on at a low level over winter, to avoid damp, pipes freezing etc

Hi OP,
I hope you don't take advice from the forum blindly. It would be better if you read a couple of posts here and form your own opinion.

If I were in your position, having sent a registered letter, I would not pay until and unless I heard a clarification from them. I mean, if there are obvious errors/inconsistencies, why should you pay? I guess this is debatable though. Some people prefer to pay first and ask for clarification/adjustment etc. later; that is what vwild1 does and advises other people to do. Me, especially if I feel they are exploiting me thinking all foreigner are dumb, would prefer to clarify first and then pay. An example below:

Write them a letter explaining the situation. If you don't hear from them, just ignore their bills.

That said,

1. It is normal for heating etc. bills to be computed a year later, and 14 months is not OTT.

2. If you agreed to pay rent for the notice period, I guess it is implicit that you also share the cost of common area heating and other costs, just as you would have paid had you stayed there during that period. You may think you won't pay for inside-the-house-heating, however some heating systems require a mild heat to be maintained to prevent freezing and damage of the tubes in winter, so a small cost is incurred even if no one stays there.

3. I understand you will be intimated and given a chance to pay before you are entered in the register. It is not like you are placed on the register and you only come to know when you apply for visa

I recommend you PM and ask doolittle she usually gives sensible advice on housing matters.

Maybe possible.

But then, when I moved cantons, each time the new canton asked for betriebung certificate from the previous canton, why would they do it if it was maintained at Federal level?

When I applied for dependent visa, Zurich, the Migrationamst asked for betreibung ceetificate from the gemeinde I live in, why would they do that if they already had my records?

Not that these technicalities should matter to the OP, but just for my own understanding.

I live in an owner occupied apartment but the same is true for renters. At our place we read the meters at the start of December and are billed around March or April for the previous year. If for example I was to sell my apartment in January I would easily have to wait 14 or 15 months before receiving the bill for any heating oil I might have used since the last time the meters were read prior to the apartment legally changing hands.

But you know this is no the point I am debating with you. We all agreed 14-15 months is quite within reasonable limits.

The point is, the OP had "a number of other issues" with the bill. He asked for clarification by registered post. He did not get a reply.
Pending that, should he or should he not pay? I suppose you would. I would not.

Edit: As for naming you, sorry I mixed up with evilshell who had given me similar advice in the other thread.

Thank you all for the answers, so at this point:

1) Should I reach out to the Property Management and ask if they received the register mail?
2) Simply write, call the matter a misunderstanding and pay the bill?
3) If I am on the bad debt list, can I get off of it by paying the bill?

I did not receive any warning or any further correspondence from the Property Management firm informing me that I was to be placed on the "bad debt list".

I do not want to put a good opportunity at risk due to 1229 CHF.

The law is 12 months after you move out to get the final bills I think. YOu never mentioned anything about your deposit, did they just return it or.. ? Usually they don't just let it go as they hold the deposit for a bit. But looks like you got lucky that they never got back to you.

But wait, if move out date was March 2007, January 2008 is within the 12 months so its not 14 months but 9-10 months. So perfectly legal.

You will not be put on the list (called Betriebung here) without your receiving prior notice and a chance to pay/clarify your position.

If you aren't 100% convinced there is something seriously dodgy about the bill, I would suggest paying up without a fuss, lest it bite you back so I suggest option 2.

Option 1 is farcical, a "registered" letter has to be received, else you would have been informed by now that the recipient is dead or the company has gone defunct etc.

The OP got the bill in Jan 2008 and answered by registered letter. Let's say the letter arrived in March 2008 - that's more than 2.5 years ago! I wouldn't expect an answer anymore.

I'd contact the Betreibungsamt directly to figure out whether there's an unpaid bill or not. If not, I'd assume that the property management didn't pursue the payment of the heating bill.

I guess the reason he deals with this issue now is clear from his nick: Return2010.

We are both saying the same thing, right?

Do you mean it is possible for him to be put on the list without his being told about it?

This is quite obvious, and this is what gets me about people like the OP and vwild1: to think about paying mainly because they plan to return to CH, else not

to point number 1: 5 years (it is only the deposit that has to be released after 12 months if the lessor does not make a claim).
to point number 2: as other posters have already said, some heating has to be done so that the pipes don't freeze.
to point number 3: you could inquire with the debt enforcement office at your old domicile whether a payment demand was lodged (https://www.e-service.admin.ch/eschk...ngsauskunft_de).

No, only the criminal registry is federal, debt enforcement registries are local.

You are right, see above.

No, see above.

Yes. The debt enforcement office just registers that company x has asked the debt enforcement office to send a payment demand to person y. This gets entered into the registry irrespective of whether they were able to serve the payment demand or not.

We probably do!


He should be informed in writing by the Betreibungsamt. But if they cannot get hold of him this is replaced by public announcement (in case of unknown residence, elude delivery or when delivery is not possible within a certain periode of time).*

If I were in the shoes of the OP I would certainly be 'pro-active' about this issue. Contact the administrative offices and know where you're standing and what you can expect.

*http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/2/281.1.de.pdf