Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Other/general
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 24.01.2006, 15:03
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 3,070
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Hi Richard, editing that post and highlighting the relevant section and hitting the quote button in the editor will make it more readable. The odd line feed would help too..

But actually, this has already been posted earlier in this thread. The URL was:
http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/220/index2.html#id-2-6-2.

I presume you used this URL to copy and paste the text in any case.

But the bottom line, as I stated earlier (and I think you now agree) is that the law is extremely clear in this case - the consumer is in a very strong legal position in this cases. In fact, it seems a little bit too much in favour of the consumer - if I were a retailer I wouldn't be very happy with having to replace an item if it were near the end of the guarantee period. In most places the choice to repair or replace a faulty item is at the discretion of the manufacturer - but in this case it is at the discretion of the consumer!

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 24.01.2006, 21:53
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 970
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
Hello Gav, I promised to send you the relevant paragraphs that apply to your case and here they are. They are articles 201, 205-207 and 210 of the Swiss Obligationsrecht. Apparently this is basic law and often contested by shops who almost always lose. These are the current articles from the fifth revision valid as of December 2005.

......
Thanks Richard, looks like I would have a good chance of ultimately winning any case.

However, since it could take months and I want the set working as quickly as possible, I've taken it to the service agents for a warranty repair. I asked the repair centre before I went and they said that 2 weeks is a normal turnaround time for repairs.

Of course, that doesn't mean that MY set is going to be ready in that time frame, but they seem competant enough people and it's been a couple of months already since the set showed the defect, I reckon I should give them a chance to fix it.


As for the w&*%3!s who wouldn't give me any service whatsoever on a defective-as-supplied set, I'm thinking of setting up a small website detailing my experience and to warn anyone who might be thinking of buying from them exactly what sort of 'service' they can expect should they receive faulty goods.

Could be a legal minefield though, so I'll need to tread carefully.


Gav
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 24.01.2006, 22:03
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 3,070
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Gav, even though they are repairing the set, the law also allows you to demand compensation for your troubles. I know it is a hassle, and will cause you grief - just pointing out that there is a provision written into the law to compensate the consumer for the inconvience of having to return something.

As for feedback - you can fill in some feedback on toppreise.ch. What is the current rating of the supplier in question? You might already find that they have terrible marks for after sales service. Browsing through the ratings it is common to see that those that get the highest points for price often get the lowest points for after sales service! Often on toppreise I check these ratings and don't go for the lowest priced vendor if they have a poor rating.

I once made a mistake where I ordered something from a company in France (you'll see them listed on toppreise.ch quite often). After becoming frustrated about lack of communication and my stuff not arriving as promised (they pretended that it was in stock but it wasn't) I did some googling. I found a site in the UK that had something like 5,000 complaint emails against this company! If only I'd checked beforehand!!

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 25.01.2006, 10:40
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,817
Groaned at 49 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Gav
If your website is factually-correct then they have no comback. Simple as that. You can't speculate on what happens to other people but you can give your story and invite people to submit their own.

In today's world, I think this is an excellent approach....negative publicity

Mark - those French muppets I would not deal with unless they were not French.....I try to buy things that Digitec stocks Even for 100 francs more, I know they're not a shower of cocks when it comes to service.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 25.01.2006, 18:37
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 3,070
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
Mark - those French muppets I would not deal with unless they were not French.....I try to buy things that Digitec stocks Even for 100 francs more, I know they're not a shower of cocks when it comes to service.
Well it was just that they said they had stock. Every Swiss company I was contacting was telling me that the wait times were like 2 months to god knows when. I got the stuff in the end, about 1 week later than I expected. My emails weren't answered at all, but I was luckier than some others. I think sometimes the problem is that Swiss businesses have to deal with Swiss distributors, and from what I hear from some of them there is a monopoly at the distributor level, and all the little webshops get totally shafted as far as service goes. At least that's how they tell it...

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 25.01.2006, 19:46
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
I think sometimes the problem is that Swiss businesses have to deal with Swiss distributors, and from what I hear from some of them there is a monopoly at the distributor level, and all the little webshops get totally shafted as far as service goes. At least that's how they tell it...

Mark
Mark here you are right. I asked a Swiss distributor to provide me a price list for a webshop and they point blank refused with the reasoning that I might undercut the shops. I told him that I have contacts in other larger countries and that I could undercut the shops anyway and was just trying to do him a favour. Still refused... Richard
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 25.01.2006, 20:18
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 3,070
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
Mark here you are right. I asked a Swiss distributor to provide me a price list for a webshop and they point blank refused with the reasoning that I might undercut the shops. I told him that I have contacts in other larger countries and that I could undercut the shops anyway and was just trying to do him a favour. Still refused... Richard
Ah... nothing like a good cartel is there? Sadly this doesn't just happen in CH, but at least in economies like the EU and USA they are large enough for businesses to get around these things (in many, but not all industries). Switzerland being out of the EU still leaves you with the problem that you have to parallel import, and that is not without its share of problems...

I think as consumers we like to get on our high horses (especially we spoilt ex-pats) but we should also take time to consider how tough it is to run these webshops on razor-thin margins. This is not a country that encourages risk-taking! Still - despite all the hardships that these shops face, an apology or good manners costs absolutely nothing - my biggest complaint!

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 25.01.2006, 22:53
Gav's Avatar
Gav Gav is offline
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Ireland
Posts: 970
Groaned at 15 Times in 11 Posts
Thanked 468 Times in 187 Posts
Gav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond reputeGav has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
Gav, even though they are repairing the set, the law also allows you to demand compensation for your troubles. I know it is a hassle, and will cause you grief - just pointing out that there is a provision written into the law to compensate the consumer for the inconvience of having to return something.
Just got some good news from the repair shop - the telly is fixed! Unbelievable, that's about 4 working days. Pretty remarkable for anywhere, never mind Switzerland. If all is well, I'll be extremely pleased.

Maybe karma is at work - balancing out the shoddy service of the retailer. Let's see if the repair is good.



[edit] Update: Got the set back and so far so good. Picture looks tip top, maybe better than before (when it was working) though that could be the result of having used a cheap and nasty 14" portable as a substitute for the last week.

Full marks to Sertronics repair shop in Spreitenbach for doing a fast, efficient job. They certainly showed up the retailer who did such a bad one.

Gav

Last edited by Gav; 26.01.2006 at 21:52.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 28.01.2006, 10:13
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 3,070
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
.I try to buy things that Digitec stocks Even for 100 francs more, I know they're not a shower of cocks when it comes to service.
Actually I have an update on that one. I'm trying to order a power supply that they don't have in their database (but that their supplier has). I filled in the extra comment field on the order for someone to contact me (8 days ago). This was a fairly large order (2500 francs) for all the parts for the new server. Didn't happen. I phoned up (4 days ago) - apparently this comment has been "lost", I spoke to a friendly guy who told me to email my questions so I did. I phoned up (3 days ago) and explained that my email had not been answered, they guy seemed concerned and said that it was important because an alternative part had been ordered that needed to be cancelled, and he would check the mail queue and find out what had happened.

So yesterday, after still not hearing anything I phoned probably one of the rudest and most apathetic individuals I've encountered who told me that I would just have to wait. He said I'd probably get an answer next week, but refused to say whether that would be beginning, middle or end of the week. I explained to him that I've been chasing this issue, and that in the end it might mean that I have to cancel the order of a part that they have had shipped to them. He just didn't care, and despite me asking him to speak High German switched back to Swiss-German - something I consider the height of rudeness. Anyway, I was absolutely furious as I got off the phone. After all - how do I know that they even received my email at all???

Unfortunately there is nobody else who sells the particular equipment I ordered, so it looks like I'll have to wait a little longer for the new server...
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 28.01.2006, 10:16
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 3,070
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
Full marks to Sertronics repair shop in Spreitenbach for doing a fast, efficient job. They certainly showed up the retailer who did such a bad one.
Glad to hear it worked out in the end, after all it just goes to show that it is possible to get something turned around fast. I hate it when people tell me something is impossible, or "it is like that everywhere" when you clearly know from experience (and usually travel) that both of these statements are complete horseshit. But I'm glad you finally got your TV back - now you should go and ask the retailer to compensate you for your hassle. It is your legal right, but I guess by now you probably aren't interested in another fight/confrontation.

Mark
Reply With Quote
  #51  
Old 28.01.2006, 13:01
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Hi Mark, You surprise me... I thought you were the type that would simply tell the guy to go shoot himself and then cancel the order. Are you mellowing in your old age? And what is this part which can only be ordered from them. I cannot believe that between us on this site we cannot source it quickly... Let us know and see if anyone can rise to the challenge... Richard
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 28.01.2006, 13:08
mark's Avatar
The Architect
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Zollikon, Switzerland
Posts: 3,070
Groaned at 3 Times in 3 Posts
Thanked 418 Times in 115 Posts
mark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond reputemark has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
Hi Mark, You surprise me... I thought you were the type that would simply tell the guy to go shoot himself and then cancel the order. Are you mellowing in your old age? And what is this part which can only be ordered from them. I cannot believe that between us on this site we cannot source it quickly... Let us know and see if anyone can rise to the challenge... Richard
Well the thing is that there's no point in arguing with an idiot, he clearly wanted to get me off the phone as soon as possible.

This is the part:

http://www.toppreise.ch/prod_74578.html

And I'd like the reduntant power supply (which is not listed with digitec)
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 29.11.2006, 16:28
Lob's Avatar
Lob Lob is offline
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: -
Posts: 7,817
Groaned at 49 Times in 44 Posts
Thanked 1,973 Times in 1,060 Posts
Blog Entries: 1
Lob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond reputeLob has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Another plus point for Digitec today when I had a two-week old device that failed on me and they're replacing it with a new one.

I also had emails from the manufacturer that stated it was borked and I should return it (RMA to Germany would've been the next option)...
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 21.08.2009, 16:02
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Arlesheim
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
kestrel has no particular reputation at present
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Hil All

I have a similar though far less serious situation. I bought an LG television from Steg at Dreispitz in Basel and could not get the digital tuner to work. It took me a day or two work out that it was defective and not the result of my incompetence, by which time I had disposed of the packaging.

Steg freely admits that it is defective and will replace it; but that will take a month until they get the same model in. They would have given me another make or model, IF I could have returned the TV in its original packing. The warranty does indeed state this, but I do not think this is a warranty issue.

Does the Swiss equivalent of the UK Sale of Goods Act say anything about having to return goods in their original packaging?

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 20.09.2009, 17:10
Uncle Max's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Züri
Posts: 7,390
Groaned at 160 Times in 109 Posts
Thanked 7,735 Times in 3,203 Posts
Uncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond reputeUncle Max has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
...Does the Swiss equivalent of the UK Sale of Goods Act say anything about having to return goods in their original packaging?

Bill
What happened next?
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 20.09.2009, 17:24
Newbie
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Arlesheim
Posts: 8
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
kestrel has no particular reputation at present
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

I am meekly waiting for Steg to receive a replacement which they will remove from its packaging before giving it to me. Thank you for reminding me that it is now overdue and that I must call them to ask where it is.

Bill
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 07.09.2010, 13:32
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wbsch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Thanks for the information here. We have a problem returning an item that we bought and the owner of the store is telling us that we should not tell them about us going to our legal department because it's in their AGB that company customers doesnt have the right to return the goods purchased doesnt matter for what reason and only the private customers are allowed to. After telling them that asking our legal department is just to inform ourselves of what the laws are here - they offered other solutions and telling us their are kind to do that. The products they sold are defectives!

I find it so UNFAIR - the customer rights in switzerland. How can they put that (right to return goods are only for private customers) on their AGB - and that law in switzerland allows that exception. What is the difference between a company buying something and a private person buying something. And the posts here are right... in Switzerland it takes freaking long time to settle something, handle a complain, and the consumers are left to no choice but to stick to the bad goods they bought and pay for ENTSORGUNG... I can't believe that such a country would have such unfair rules or would have such a terrible system... i expect more from the high tax we're paying here...
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 07.09.2010, 13:46
Newbie
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: zurich
Posts: 5
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
wbsch has no particular reputation at present
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

ohh i forgot to post this... this is even worse...
-- Do EU consumer rights apply in Switzerland? No. Switzerland is not part of the EU and has its own national legislation. -- meaning to say 14 days return policy does not apply to all consumers and a company can alter this using their AGB... not good buyer protection law... can't find something about direct purchase... but this site explains it more or less
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleases...ce=MEMO/08/305
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 07.09.2010, 14:09
Gastro Gnome's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Zürich
Posts: 3,555
Groaned at 50 Times in 36 Posts
Thanked 2,856 Times in 1,550 Posts
Gastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond reputeGastro Gnome has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

Quote:
View Post
ohh i forgot to post this... this is even worse...
-- Do EU consumer rights apply in Switzerland? No. Switzerland is not part of the EU and has its own national legislation. -- meaning to say 14 days return policy does not apply to all consumers and a company can alter this using their AGB... not good buyer protection law... can't find something about direct purchase... but this site explains it more or less
http://europa.eu/rapid/pressReleases...ce=MEMO/08/305
Why do you think EU legislation is relevant to a discussion about a situation in Switzerland?
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 07.09.2010, 14:15
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Luzern currently
Posts: 2,565
Groaned at 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 720 Times in 373 Posts
Richard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond reputeRichard has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Consumer rights in Switzerland

IT is true that Switzerland does not have a general returns right and having owned a retail establishment I can say, that is not per se a bad thing.

Why should a business take back an item that has been bought and return the cash, sometimes if not always losing money on the transaction? If the customer is prepared to take a credit note or exchange then fine but a complete annulling of the transaction should generally not be allowed.

Of course if the item is faulty, then the customer, be it private person or business, has the right to return the item for replacement or repair or indeed to step out of the contract all together.

If the company is refusing to replace or accept a return of defective items you can point to the relevant legal text which probably starts with articles 197 to 210 OR and no AGB can annul these:-)




Quote:
View Post
Thanks for the information here. We have a problem returning an item that we bought and the owner of the store is telling us that we should not tell them about us going to our legal department because it's in their AGB that company customers doesnt have the right to return the goods purchased doesnt matter for what reason and only the private customers are allowed to. After telling them that asking our legal department is just to inform ourselves of what the laws are here - they offered other solutions and telling us their are kind to do that. The products they sold are defectives!

I find it so UNFAIR - the customer rights in switzerland. How can they put that (right to return goods are only for private customers) on their AGB - and that law in switzerland allows that exception. What is the difference between a company buying something and a private person buying something. And the posts here are right... in Switzerland it takes freaking long time to settle something, handle a complain, and the consumers are left to no choice but to stick to the bad goods they bought and pay for ENTSORGUNG... I can't believe that such a country would have such unfair rules or would have such a terrible system... i expect more from the high tax we're paying here...
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Richard for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT +2. The time now is 10:54.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0