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  #21  
Old 19.12.2014, 20:46
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

I'm italian and I lived for 8 years in Busto Arsizio, 30km far from the border and 40km from Milano.
If you want to live in Italy is better if you looking for some place like Luino because traffic from A8 and A9 is terrible! Italy is not Switzerland, only the Lombardy region has more inhabitants than all CH
You can take 2 hours for making 15km on an italian 4 lane highway
Advantages are:
Italy is very cheaper than Switzerland, (except gasoline) life cost more or less an half; for eg. you can take a Kebab for 4.5€ and a Pizza at the restaurant for 20€ instead 40 in CH;
You don't need healthcare, is all free and you have to pay only a ticket when you go to the hospital (usually about 30€) or if you want to have private specialist visit (no more than 100€)
Shops, supermarket and restaurant close later, generally 2-3 hours later than in CH and all is opened 7/7
Bureaucracy is yes a nightmare but if you pay with one week of delay for eg. there are not so many problems or if police stop you for speeding ecc... you can start to cry and they usually doesen't make the fine Life is generally more relaxed.
People usually like to go out in the night and there is more nightlife, for eg. Lugano in Sunday night is a desert when near the border you can find italian towns with lots of bar and restaurant opened and full of people.
Food is usually better for lowest prices.


On the other hand Italy is not easy for strangers that are not North africans arrived with a boat because all is usually written only in Italian, Bureucracy is really slow and often crazy to understand;
Roads are a swiss grouvier with hundred of holes and road rage level is Amazing
Switzerland is clean, perfect, fast and people are usually very correct; life is calm and easier and air is cleaner ^^
Taxes are lower and easier to pay and it's more friendly for foreigners.
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  #22  
Old 22.12.2014, 07:26
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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I'm italian and I lived for 8 years in Busto Arsizio, 30km far from the border and 40km from Milano.
If you want to live in Italy is better if you looking for some place like Luino because traffic from A8 and A9 is terrible! Italy is not Switzerland, only the Lombardy region has more inhabitants than all CH
You can take 2 hours for making 15km on an italian 4 lane highway
Advantages are:
Italy is very cheaper than Switzerland, (except gasoline) life cost more or less an half; for eg. you can take a Kebab for 4.5€ and a Pizza at the restaurant for 20€ instead 40 in CH;
You don't need healthcare, is all free and you have to pay only a ticket when you go to the hospital (usually about 30€) or if you want to have private specialist visit (no more than 100€)
Shops, supermarket and restaurant close later, generally 2-3 hours later than in CH and all is opened 7/7
Bureaucracy is yes a nightmare but if you pay with one week of delay for eg. there are not so many problems or if police stop you for speeding ecc... you can start to cry and they usually doesen't make the fine Life is generally more relaxed.
People usually like to go out in the night and there is more nightlife, for eg. Lugano in Sunday night is a desert when near the border you can find italian towns with lots of bar and restaurant opened and full of people.
Food is usually better for lowest prices.


On the other hand Italy is not easy for strangers that are not North africans arrived with a boat because all is usually written only in Italian, Bureucracy is really slow and often crazy to understand;
Roads are a swiss grouvier with hundred of holes and road rage level is Amazing
Switzerland is clean, perfect, fast and people are usually very correct; life is calm and easier and air is cleaner ^^
Taxes are lower and easier to pay and it's more friendly for foreigners.


Most Maghrebis who went to Northern Italy went by airplane
That things are written in Italian is not surprising
Milano by train is only half an hour away from Chiasso
the size of Lombardia is known
that prices in Lombardia are lower than in Switzerland is known
that Ticino has adjusted to CH standards is clear
rules in Italy (centrally governed) in regard to opening times etc already were more liberal than in CH already was so in the 1960ies


all in all I fail to see anything surprising in your statement
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  #23  
Old 22.12.2014, 09:25
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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a Pizza at the restaurant for 20€ instead 40 in CH
What restaurants do you go to?

EUR 12 is more the case in Italy, and CHF 18 here. (for an average pizza, some are more, some are less).

And Luino is a very bad idea, unless you like traffic.

Tom
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Old 22.12.2014, 09:42
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

Luino is not a particularly nice place to live anyway.
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  #25  
Old 22.12.2014, 10:14
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

An Italian ranting about Switzerland. I actually enjoyed reading that.
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  #26  
Old 22.12.2014, 10:18
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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But that would be the version reloaded, imho, not for dummies.


We don't know if OP speaks Italian, and whereas Swiss local bureaucracy can sometimes be nasty, the Italian version of it is a nightmare.

I'm none of those who look down on Southern Europe in general and Italy in particular (as a matter of fact, I know quite well what Switzerland's problems are, and there are loads of them), but I don't think that for a newbie in Switzerland and, at the same time, in Italy, to be a commuter from Italy would be an easy task.
Bureaucracy in Lombardy is indeed not good but much better than the rest of Italy. People from outside exaggerate.
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  #27  
Old 22.12.2014, 12:36
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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What restaurants do you go to?

EUR 12 is more the case in Italy, and CHF 18 here. (for an average pizza, some are more, some are less).

And Luino is a very bad idea, unless you like traffic.

Tom
In Zug I haven't found a puzza for less than 40chf (pizza, one beer, one bottle of water) I was thinking that Ticino was lower but not to far with prices, mea culpa.
In Italy 12€? It depends by the city, there is a wide range of prices. I know this because I'm italian and I lived in South and North for long time.
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  #28  
Old 22.12.2014, 12:40
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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Bureaucracy in Lombardy is indeed not good but much better than the rest of Italy. People from outside exaggerate.
Four years for have a permit for build a garage because the major change three times and they change idea every week is a bit too much I think. It happened in Castano Primo, Lombardia
In south is easier, you can call the major, talk directly with him, offer something and start to work ahahahhah ^^
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  #29  
Old 22.12.2014, 12:47
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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Most Maghrebis who went to Northern Italy went by airplane
That things are written in Italian is not surprising
Milano by train is only half an hour away from Chiasso
the size of Lombardia is known
that prices in Lombardia are lower than in Switzerland is known
that Ticino has adjusted to CH standards is clear
rules in Italy (centrally governed) in regard to opening times etc already were more liberal than in CH already was so in the 1960ies


all in all I fail to see anything surprising in your statement
Yes, in summer is full of planes arriving from North Africa instead Hope boat.... They arrive with truck or, by train (with a ticket payed by government)
I don't remember in Italy supermarket opened before 2000, things changed especially with this last crisis; eg. In Pescara shops now remain opened in Sunday and close one hour after every months, not only near holidays.
Milano is 30 mins by train but, first, it's very expensive, second if you have to go somewhere else than Lugano? And trains in Lombardia are full like cattle cars in the morning. I was a pendular for five years in Milano and know the situation
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  #30  
Old 22.12.2014, 21:01
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

you can easily do pizza and a beer for 30 francs in most places - downtown Zurich too. Tap water should be free, why pay?

If you live in Italy and work in Switzerland, choose a place to live that has two reasonable routes in and out. So that rules out passing over or through a mountain or along a lake.

I think that leaves you somewhere along the way near Solbiate or along the road between Como and Varese. More chance to cross the border.

But then you'll have pinch points at the A2 wherever you hit it. And you will want to hit it, believe me.....
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  #31  
Old 23.12.2014, 10:05
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

my 2 cents... i use a scooter all year to avoid traffic, my commute is about only 15 mins though. I'd probably stay in Switzerland (to avoid all the bureacracy... maybe later you want to go and work in Basel, Geneva etc).

Look for a place around the new train station Mendrisio San Martino (next to all the shops (foxtown etc) also a decent bar and disco), will be way cheaper than Lugano where apartment prices are fairly exaggerated. The trains anyway run pretty late for going out in Milano/Como/Lugano.
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  #32  
Old 31.12.2014, 14:35
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

I live in Mendrisio so I can speak from experience. Except for nightlife which is really not my thing.

TRAFFIC:
Traffic is hell unless you go the opposite way.
If you are hired to work on standard hours you should definitely stay north of Stabio but not around Grancia imho.
As for me, being a freelancer, I have no problems at all since I always choose when to book a meeting in Lugano or Locarno, etc.

EXPENSES:
I chose to stay and live in Ticino because I have a project for my life and want a peaceful life even if it costs much more and I have to live much more sparingly (consider spending at least some 4-5k CHF more each year compared to Italy just with Cassa Malati-Krankenkasse, Billag aka TV/radio tax, home insurance, and other things).
Taking rent into account the expense difference goes much higher unless you find some cave or something so cheap like I did loool.
Car repair is uber expensive in Switzerland, they ask 100-150 CHF/h and Phone & mobile companies cost more.
But gasoline and electricity, utilities in general are cheaper.

In the end if you're in for the "groove" definitely go for the Como area, cheaper rent, no Cassa Malati if you're Italian, etc.
Always save some ks (thousands of CHF) in your bank while living in Switzerland because they go away easily when you have an emergency and need a technician or the like.

LOCATION:
Don't even consider Luino, to get to Stabio is way too long. Stabio is close to the Como area and a few tiny villages of Varese. From there you can easily reach the nightlife in Como or all the way down to Milano when you want to go there.
The place you choose will save you hours each day. Try a couple of paths by car as if you had to get to your workplace and you will see why many talk about it here as an important point .

TAXES:
If you have an employer and are from the EU with G (main home in Italy in your case) or B (in Switzerland) permit you will be taxed from your salary much less than a Swiss or freelance like me. Read the contract well and be sure about "netto" (net) and "lordo" (gross) in the salary.

FOOD:
Anyway you choose you still can buy some groceries in the Como area, but some things are better quality in Switzerland so you can do both. BTW Milk, yoghurt or even vegan yoghurts and drinks cost less in Switzerland.

RENT:
I already told you about rent difference between Italy and Switzerland but there's some more info which come in handy.
Living in Italy with a G permit can still let you rent a place in Ticino or stay up to 6 days a week. It will not be very easy and you'd have to leave it at least one day a week. The main problem is paying two rents or finding a second place to stay but it's still possible.

QUICK REVIEW:
Switzerland pros:
- more peaceful and better life quality
- cheaper milk, yoghurt and vegan substitute drinks
- cheaper gasoline and electricity
- better bureaucracy (makes you waste less time)

Italy pros:
- cheaper rent
- cheaper mobile and phone services
- no Cassa Malati (Krankenkasse)
- cheaper repair costs

Blessings for this new year and may you find the best solution for you!!
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  #33  
Old 04.01.2015, 12:20
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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I live in Mendrisio so I can speak from experience. Except for nightlife which is really not my thing.

TRAFFIC:
Traffic is hell unless you go the opposite way.
If you are hired to work on standard hours you should definitely stay north of Stabio but not around Grancia imho.
As for me, being a freelancer, I have no problems at all since I always choose when to book a meeting in Lugano or Locarno, etc.

EXPENSES:
I chose to stay and live in Ticino because I have a project for my life and want a peaceful life even if it costs much more and I have to live much more sparingly (consider spending at least some 4-5k CHF more each year compared to Italy just with Cassa Malati-Krankenkasse, Billag aka TV/radio tax, home insurance, and other things).
Taking rent into account the expense difference goes much higher unless you find some cave or something so cheap like I did loool.
Car repair is uber expensive in Switzerland, they ask 100-150 CHF/h and Phone & mobile companies cost more.
But gasoline and electricity, utilities in general are cheaper.

In the end if you're in for the "groove" definitely go for the Como area, cheaper rent, no Cassa Malati if you're Italian, etc.
Always save some ks (thousands of CHF) in your bank while living in Switzerland because they go away easily when you have an emergency and need a technician or the like.

LOCATION:
Don't even consider Luino, to get to Stabio is way too long. Stabio is close to the Como area and a few tiny villages of Varese. From there you can easily reach the nightlife in Como or all the way down to Milano when you want to go there.
The place you choose will save you hours each day. Try a couple of paths by car as if you had to get to your workplace and you will see why many talk about it here as an important point .

TAXES:
If you have an employer and are from the EU with G (main home in Italy in your case) or B (in Switzerland) permit you will be taxed from your salary much less than a Swiss or freelance like me. Read the contract well and be sure about "netto" (net) and "lordo" (gross) in the salary.

FOOD:
Anyway you choose you still can buy some groceries in the Como area, but some things are better quality in Switzerland so you can do both. BTW Milk, yoghurt or even vegan yoghurts and drinks cost less in Switzerland.

RENT:
I already told you about rent difference between Italy and Switzerland but there's some more info which come in handy.
Living in Italy with a G permit can still let you rent a place in Ticino or stay up to 6 days a week. It will not be very easy and you'd have to leave it at least one day a week. The main problem is paying two rents or finding a second place to stay but it's still possible.

QUICK REVIEW:
Switzerland pros:
- more peaceful and better life quality
- cheaper milk, yoghurt and vegan substitute drinks
- cheaper gasoline and electricity
- better bureaucracy (makes you waste less time)

Italy pros:
- cheaper rent
- cheaper mobile and phone services
- no Cassa Malati (Krankenkasse)
- cheaper repair costs

Blessings for this new year and may you find the best solution for you!!
Thank you for all the info, there were really helpful! One last thing...from your experience how long will it take me from Lugano to Stabio by car at 7:45am?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.01.2015 at 18:52. Reason: fixed name in quoted text
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  #34  
Old 04.01.2015, 12:44
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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Thank you for all the info, there were really helpful! One last thing...from your experience how long will it take me from Lugano to Stabio by car at 7:45am?
Depends where in Lugano, and where in Stabio.

30 minutes, more or less.

Tom
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  #35  
Old 04.01.2015, 13:59
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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I live in Mendrisio so I can speak from experience. Except for nightlife which is really not my thing.

TRAFFIC:
Traffic is hell unless you go the opposite way.
If you are hired to work on standard hours you should definitely stay north of Stabio but not around Grancia imho.
As for me, being a freelancer, I have no problems at all since I always choose when to book a meeting in Lugano or Locarno, etc.

EXPENSES:
I chose to stay and live in Ticino because I have a project for my life and want a peaceful life even if it costs much more and I have to live much more sparingly (consider spending at least some 4-5k CHF more each year compared to Italy just with Cassa Malati-Krankenkasse, Billag aka TV/radio tax, home insurance, and other things).
Taking rent into account the expense difference goes much higher unless you find some cave or something so cheap like I did loool.
Car repair is uber expensive in Switzerland, they ask 100-150 CHF/h and Phone & mobile companies cost more.
But gasoline and electricity, utilities in general are cheaper.

In the end if you're in for the "groove" definitely go for the Como area, cheaper rent, no Cassa Malati if you're Italian, etc.
Always save some ks (thousands of CHF) in your bank while living in Switzerland because they go away easily when you have an emergency and need a technician or the like.

LOCATION:
Don't even consider Luino, to get to Stabio is way too long. Stabio is close to the Como area and a few tiny villages of Varese. From there you can easily reach the nightlife in Como or all the way down to Milano when you want to go there.
The place you choose will save you hours each day. Try a couple of paths by car as if you had to get to your workplace and you will see why many talk about it here as an important point .

TAXES:
If you have an employer and are from the EU with G (main home in Italy in your case) or B (in Switzerland) permit you will be taxed from your salary much less than a Swiss or freelance like me. Read the contract well and be sure about "netto" (net) and "lordo" (gross) in the salary.

FOOD:
Anyway you choose you still can buy some groceries in the Como area, but some things are better quality in Switzerland so you can do both. BTW Milk, yoghurt or even vegan yoghurts and drinks cost less in Switzerland.

RENT:
I already told you about rent difference between Italy and Switzerland but there's some more info which come in handy.
Living in Italy with a G permit can still let you rent a place in Ticino or stay up to 6 days a week. It will not be very easy and you'd have to leave it at least one day a week. The main problem is paying two rents or finding a second place to stay but it's still possible.

QUICK REVIEW:
Switzerland pros:
- more peaceful and better life quality
- cheaper milk, yoghurt and vegan substitute drinks
- cheaper gasoline and electricity
- better bureaucracy (makes you waste less time)

Italy pros:
- cheaper rent
- cheaper mobile and phone services
- no Cassa Malati (Krankenkasse)
- cheaper repair costs

Blessings for this new year and may you find the best solution for you!!
Can you explain what is better quality in CH please?
About other points, it depends by the person, I've decided to leave Switzerland because for me quality of life is terrible; I'm having serious depression troubles here, life is too boring, going out in the night is too expensive and I'm a person that need to go out not less than 5-6 days a week and I need to be stimulated by the energy of a big city and Switzerland is exactly the opposite
Not all are equal, I prefer to stay in a city like Buenos Aires (where I was for holidays this summer) than in a calm, safe place like Zug


P.S. vegan alternatives? WTF?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.01.2015 at 18:52. Reason: fixed name in quoted text
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  #36  
Old 04.01.2015, 19:44
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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Thank you for all the info, there were really helpful! One last thing...from your experience how long will it take me from Lugano to Stabio by car at 7:45am?
Glad to be of help.
It depends mainly on where you will live in Lugano. If you find some place close to the highway "autostrada" or around Melide you should be going the opposite way of traffic flow and your main concern would be around Mendrisio/Stabio at the exit.


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Can you explain what is better quality in CH please?
About other points, it depends by the person, I've decided to leave Switzerland because for me quality of life is terrible; I'm having serious depression troubles here, life is too boring, going out in the night is too expensive and I'm a person that need to go out not less than 5-6 days a week and I need to be stimulated by the energy of a big city and Switzerland is exactly the opposite
Not all are equal, I prefer to stay in a city like Buenos Aires (where I was for holidays this summer) than in a calm, safe place like Zug


P.S. vegan alternatives? WTF?
Looool ok M4rcius I understand and know other people who are not compatible with the Swiss lifestyle. Besides, I never lived in Zug, but I guess it probably is much more "nothing's happening here" than Ticino could ever be.
Come live here as a first step!!

What I mean by quality is the fact that many services work well enough and that though you are forced to spend more in insurances and services you do have more benefits than some other countries.

Talking about South America, I also know some Swiss people that came back here after retiring in some other country which is the opposite of what you feel.
The main reason was because of chaos and services not working well, etc. That's what I meant by quality. In Italy I spent more time talking to support asking for paid services to fix their service than to do other stuff. I know of many others who struggle to have what they pay for.

Not that there isn't quality elsewhere, some maybe are even better, but in the end it's a more stable life unless you are a millionaire and don't feel the difference.

BTW it's nice that you visited Argentina, it was winter time there, right? I consider myself a multi-taste kind of guy so got no problem with that. It's just that I prefer a peaceful life over one full of stress (even too much energy, just a good balance since I consider my life intellectually super-stimulating already). I don't even know how to get bored even if I have to stay a whole week at home. Learning and making is my life.

Oh, I get your reaction to my reference to "vegan" whatever, loool, Argentina is all about grilled meat!!
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  #37  
Old 05.01.2015, 01:10
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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Depends where in Lugano, and where in Stabio.

30 minutes, more or less.

Tom
Well I have found a flat in Lugano Paradiso and probably I'm getting that one.My work is via Cantonaccio.I guess it will take a little be less than 30min?
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  #38  
Old 05.01.2015, 18:51
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

Google maps says 19 minutes, it's very possible since from paradiso you avoid the lugano traffic you go directly on the A2 from lugano sud entrance.
Also if you want you can take the train to stabio, only 30 minutes, without having to take buses before or after the train (unlike most of lugano) it's very good, in case you don't have a free parking spot.
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  #39  
Old 05.01.2015, 22:11
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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Google maps says 19 minutes, it's very possible ...
Yes, on Sundays ...
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Old 05.01.2015, 22:53
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Re: Working in Ticino but staying in Lugano, Como or Milan?

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Yes, on Sundays ...
lol k
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como, lugano, milan, switzerland, work




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