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  #41  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:10
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Re: Brave New World?

Is this the modern definition of a threesome ?
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  #42  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:18
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Re: Brave New World?

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Some mutations are positive and useful to the advancement of mankind.
Who gets to decide? How can we expect to forsee the future of our evolution? I argue that all mutations are in the end positive and useful to the advancement of mankind.

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In what way is a reduced IQ and reliance on others for many tasks an advancement for both the individual or mankind?
I don't believe that the life of someone with Down's syndrome is worth less than that of a 'normal' person. Everyone is different and unique in their own way, and each contributes to society in their own way.
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  #43  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:41
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Re: Brave New World?

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Actually, the thing that people with a handicapped child do mention more than anything else is that basically the child's siblings have to take second place with everything as the child in question can take over their lives and all their time.

The fact that the child isn't going to win a violin competition is really neither here nor there.
Maybe other types of handicaps, but not Down Syndrome children. They are perfectly natural people, with a child-like nature. More helpful than most children. And of course, they look different, all having pretty much the same sort of features, so are distinctive. And too trusting to survive alone in the world as it is now. Sad that they have no value as a human.
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  #44  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:47
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Who gets to decide? How can we expect to forsee the future of our evolution? I argue that all mutations are in the end positive and useful to the advancement of mankind.
.
I disagree. Isn't this the point of evolution? (with a few hiccups along the way).

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I don't believe that the life of someone with Down's syndrome is worth less than that of a 'normal' person. Everyone is different and unique in their own way, and each contributes to society in their own way.
I never said it was. You may be pro-life or whatever but personally I think the laws that allow prospective parents choice are fine as they are.

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Maybe other types of handicaps, but not Down Syndrome children. They are perfectly natural people, with a child-like nature. More helpful than most children. And of course, they look different, all having pretty much the same sort of features, so are distinctive. And too trusting to survive alone in the world as it is now. Sad that they have no value as a human.
You know I'm not referring to Down's Syndrome here so don't you dare pretend that I am in your own twisted way.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 05.02.2015 at 17:41. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #45  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:53
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Re: Brave New World?

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I disagree. Isn't this the point of evolution? (with a few hiccups along the way).



I never said it was. You may be pro-life or whatever but personally I think the laws that allow prospective parents choice are fine as they are.
Mutations need countless generations to be played out, in any species. How can we expect to forsee the future of a certain species with a certain mutation, in an ever-changing environment?


I'm fine with the laws also, but I prefer not to put any pro-this or pro-that label on myself.
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  #46  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:57
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

If mutations are weeded out by our own hand, then by definition, they are not useful adaptations to the current environment.
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  #47  
Old 05.02.2015, 17:01
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Re: Brave New World?

People like to think they are smarter than they should, yet are so prone to tragedies because of it.

Its stupid to make value judgements for the future based on current values of today when one does not even know what values the future demands. For example, lets filter out all babies unlikely to grow over 6" foot tall, because tall people tend to earn higher salaries. Then in the future, survival depends on riding spaceships that can only accommodate people under 5" tall. Tall people consume more resources.

Arrogance meeting tragedy can also be a comedy.

Last edited by Phos; 05.02.2015 at 18:38.
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  #48  
Old 05.02.2015, 17:28
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Re: Brave New World?

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People like to think they are smarter than they should, yet are so prone to tragedies because of it.

Its stupid to make value judgements for the future based on current values of today when one those not even know what values the future demands. For example, lets filter out all babies unlikely to grow over 6" foot tall, because tall people tend to earn higher salaries. Then in the future, survival depends on riding spaceships that can only accommodate people under 5" tall. Tall people consume more resources.

Arrogance meeting tragedy can also be a comedy.
sure, or maybe something else happens which means that we need more 6" tall people. who knows?
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  #49  
Old 05.02.2015, 17:43
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

The concept of not following through on scientific research strictly on the premise of speculation by some that "something might go wrong" is absolutely ridiculous!

Yes there are risks, and yes things will go wrong and we will learn from trial and error, but halting all attempts at furthering our understanding of the natural world we are apart of, just because of hunches of doomsday is pretty ignorant.
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  #50  
Old 05.02.2015, 17:50
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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The concept of not following through on scientific research strictly on the premise of speculation by some that "something might go wrong" is absolutely ridiculous!

Yes there are risks, and yes things will go wrong and we will learn from trial and error, but halting all attempts at furthering our understanding of the natural world we are apart of, just because of hunches of doomsday is pretty ignorant.
I think there are big differences between not doing theoretical research for fuzzy reasons, and opposing the commercialization of the results of that research.

Research is motivated by the will to understand things, not the will to re-order things. The will to re-order and change things is not scientific curiosity but myopic fools on a power trip using science as a fig leaf.
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  #51  
Old 05.02.2015, 18:12
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

v
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The concept of not following through on scientific research strictly on the premise of speculation by some that "something might go wrong" is absolutely ridiculous!

Yes there are risks, and yes things will go wrong and we will learn from trial and error, but halting all attempts at furthering our understanding of the natural world we are apart of, just because of hunches of doomsday is pretty ignorant.
Research and gathering knowledge are all good. But manipulating the course of nature based on a partial understanding of what it impacts, or because someone deemed a "scientist" seems to think it is okay, is kind of risky, don't you think? If the risk is unavoidable, fine, you make a judgement call. But what if it isn't really necessary?


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Research is motivated by the will to understand things, not the will to re-order things.
Here, I was thinking Purchase Order when I read that.
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  #52  
Old 05.02.2015, 18:40
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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Research and gathering knowledge are all good. But manipulating the course of nature based on a partial understanding of what it impacts, or because someone deemed a "scientist" seems to think it is okay, is kind of risky, don't you think? If the risk is unavoidable, fine, you make a judgement call. But what if it isn't really necessary?
Do you mean like building a sea wall to stop coastal erosion and stuff like that?

But on topic - scientists discover things. The law makers decide whether these things get put into action.
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  #53  
Old 05.02.2015, 18:46
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

Well I'm rather glad that people had the arrogance to tamper with the natural course of things, because I'm not an enormous fan of running after mountain goats and eating them raw.
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  #54  
Old 05.02.2015, 18:50
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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v

Research and gathering knowledge are all good. But manipulating the course of nature based on a partial understanding of what it impacts, or because someone deemed a "scientist" seems to think it is okay, is kind of risky, don't you think? If the risk is unavoidable, fine, you make a judgement call. But what if it isn't really necessary?
well if the risk is lower than not doing it...
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  #55  
Old 05.02.2015, 18:58
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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Do you mean like building a sea wall to stop coastal erosion and stuff like that?

But on topic - scientists discover things. The law makers decide whether these things get put into action.
That is more like engineering, isn't it? Scientists discover the mechanics of phenomenon. Inventors, technologists and engineers apply it. I'm not so sure the discoverers are necessarily the best people to judge when and how to apply it.

I was thinking of Aspergers. To some people, in social contexts, it could be seen as a debilitation. But often, they are geniuses. I heard of one we used for quickly finding systemic defects. He was hands down better at it than anybody. Some even think we need more people with Aspergers. Couldn't trying to eliminate Aspergers from the gene pool cause us to lose out on a much needed talent?
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  #56  
Old 05.02.2015, 19:03
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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That is more like engineering, isn't it? Scientists discover the mechanics of phenomenon. Inventors, technologists and engineers apply it. I'm not so sure the discoverers are necessarily the best people to judge when and how to apply it.

I was thinking of Aspergers. To some people, in social contexts, it could be seen as a debilitation. But often, they are geniuses. I heard of one we used for quickly finding systemic defects. He was hands down better at it than anybody. Some even think we need more people with Aspergers. Couldn't trying to eliminate Aspergers from the gene pool cause us to lose out on a much needed talent?
what if there were no people with aspergers and we used genetic engineering to create them?
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  #57  
Old 05.02.2015, 19:06
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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what if there were no people with aspergers and we used genetic engineering to create them?
That sounds cruel, but what if they use it to dominate and enslave humanity, or use us for protein?
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  #58  
Old 05.02.2015, 19:11
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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That sounds cruel, but what if they use it to dominate and enslave humanity, or use us for protein?
It's people. Soylent green is people.... now take some soma and get over it.
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  #59  
Old 05.02.2015, 19:12
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

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That sounds cruel, but what if they use it to dominate and enslave humanity, or use us for protein?
You don't need genetic engineering to dominate and enslave people.

We seem quite capable of doing that without science.
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  #60  
Old 23.04.2015, 22:13
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Re: Brave New World? [3-parent babies]

and so it continues...

engineering the perfect baby
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