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  #21  
Old 24.03.2015, 19:32
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

OP your first contact should be with your Heimatort/place of origin. The authorities there can tell you what, if anything, you'd be entitled to. From what I understand it's not much but you wouldn't be living under a bridge.

I do have to question the wisdom of this decision you seem to have made, though. You've never even visited the country so you have no clue what it is like to live here. You'd be making a big trade weather-wise, for starters.

Most of our members live here or have lived here, and we can tell you first-hand how challenging it can be to integrate when you don't speak the language or know the cultural quirks. I'm not saying you should never move here. I'm just saying you probably will be happier in the long run if your plan consists of more than "move and go on the dole."

About a year ago we had another member with similar circumstances. He was quite similar to you - young, Swiss but never lived here, didn't speak the language(s), had no particular skills, etc. He joined the Forum, posted about his desire to move here and decided to give it a go in spite of our warnings that it would not all be sunshine and roses. He was willing to do any job, but found he could not even get a job at McDonald's without any German skills. After a few months he complained quite loudly that he thought it would be so much easier to make a life here just because he was Swiss. It was not a good experience for him.
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  #22  
Old 24.03.2015, 19:54
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Re: Guidance needed-

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It would be ironic if here you are chastising a Swiss for wanting to come to Switzerland, and you turn out to be on an Auslanderausweis.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe you think its cool to be the moral judge of random people on the Internet. But carry on.... keep projecting.
maybe you should start respecting other peoples opinion ... this is not about you or me being an Auslanderausweis, as you nicely quoted it it's just the fact that a 23 year old person is gathering around information to go somewhere to live on benefits... this is what is destroying the current social system in CH, which is indeed very generous!!

and even if you or me are not Swiss we do live in this country and abusing of the system that is providing us the life we have should not be accepted. But again, this is my opinion, it's fine with me if you don't share it!!
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  #23  
Old 24.03.2015, 20:07
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

You're right, I don't share it. He's apparently Swiss and so has the right to make use of Swiss services, when available, legally and ethically. A positive privilege. Beyond that, its not for you to judge.

I've seen people like this make more out of their lives, and add more to the lives of others than those who never muster up the courage and resolve to do something with themselves.

etafan: At 23, if you are not inspired by where you live, and you have an opportunity to do something about it, by all means, DO IT! Y.O.L.O. It may be hard, and you can make mistakes, but its all about desire. And if you really want something bad enough, and are willing to do what it takes to accomplish, you will achieve a lot more than doing nothing at all. Don't listen to old fogies past their prime. Go for it!
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  #24  
Old 24.03.2015, 20:55
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

The Swiss Federal Foreign Affairs Department has a web page and a brochure on Swiss returning to Switzerland. It looks helpful:

https://www.eda.admin.ch/eda/en/home...ieschweiz.html

Since the opening of the labor borders with the EU about 10 years ago through the signing of the Personenfreizügigkeitsabkommen, Swiss citizens have had to compete with EU citizens for jobs in Switzerland. A better qualified EU citizen will likely get the job these days before a lesser qualified Swiss, which wasn't the case before this agreement.

I would not, however, discourage you from immigrating to Switzerland - you have a right to live here. Remember what Gorbachev said to Erich Honecker: "Wer zu spät kommt, den bestraft das Leben", meaning, there's no time like the present.
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  #25  
Old 24.03.2015, 21:01
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Re: Guidance needed-

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being a Swiss passport holder gives you the right to claim any money, just because you are Swiss, that by the way has never ever contributed a penny towards the swiss system???
Actually, it does.

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OP your first contact should be with your Heimatort/place of origin. The authorities there can tell you what, if anything, you'd be entitled to.
The Heimatort is not relevant these days for social assistance, rather it's the place you are registered as living at.

The amount will be around 2k/month.

Tom
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  #26  
Old 25.03.2015, 03:45
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Isn't this just a blatant contradiction of yourself? i.e. you say you don't want to ask your uncle for support because you feel it'd be improper, yet you'd be quite happy to accept state social assistance from a system into which you've never paid a penny?

.............You'll probably have a better quality of life if you stay where you are.................
Accepting assistance from a governmental institution, cannot be compared to invading the privacy of a person you barely know.

PS:You dont know why i believe it is abusive, maybe some californian "cousin" came from the states and stayed in my house for 6 months, ate my food, and slept in my bed;And i deemed anything close to that as abusive.

Also you are very critical when i expose myself, yet the only information you provide of yourself is your current location.

I am sorry if i am being offensive, i have tried to be as apologetic as i can, i will consult with my local embassy, as i was instructed several times.

Also please have in mind when i post is because i just came from work, and if i post again within 10 hours is because i just woke up

@3wishes : im sorry for double posting
@phos thanks for your comments, having you stand for me made me feel kind of worthy.
@mennofloyd: By some of the topics i had read i used to be believe you were very "republican", but your comment is epicly inspiring.

I will withdraw myself from this topic for the time being unless, i get any information which instead of asking i can actually provide.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 25.03.2015 at 17:27. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #27  
Old 25.03.2015, 05:15
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

Are you expecting someone to give you new clothes, feed you free for up to a year, and give you presents, just because you are a born lucky Swiss?

These people do it:
http://www.vtg.admin.ch/internet/vtg...m_medium=email

Maybe phone them for a chat first before you rock up! +41 31 324 24 24
See what they will do.

Sounds like you love Switzerland. It is as good as you think. As far as I am aware, plusses and minuses taken into account, it is one of the best places on this rock to live. If you are willing to work hard you will make it here! No problemo!

I would say, the responsible attitude is to save up until you have $500 and a plane ticket and rock up here in Zurich. Just do it! Sell your bike/car/bicycle, your PC, just bring the hard drive, and an unlocked mobile, plus your Uncle's phone number... Read and print out the other links people have sent you. Some of us will meet you in Zurich HB, buy you your first beer in CH (Cheap skates will try and bring you one from Denner)!

If there is anything like the following in your current country, bring it:
Criminal records extract.
Extract from Debtors register, credit check printout, etc.
(doesn't matter if these have entries already, although the criminal part might affect the Army.) If you could get them attached to a notorised German/Italian/French translation (Apostile) that might help.

It can be really cheap to live in Switzerland, if you rough it a bit.
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Old 25.03.2015, 08:35
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Re: Guidance needed-

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maybe some californian "cousin" came from the states and stayed in my house for 6 months, ate my food, and slept in my bed;And i deemed anything close to that as abusive
It's not.

My daughter did exactly that when she moved to the US, my niece did that when she came here to learn Italian.

Tom
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  #29  
Old 25.03.2015, 08:43
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

If you want to come to Europe, why don't you start off moving to and getting work in a country where you speak the language? The UK? Ireland? Spain?

Then you can work, earn money and improve your French/German at the same time, to move to Switzerland in the future?
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Old 25.03.2015, 08:47
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Re: Guidance needed-

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Accepting assistance from a governmental institution, cannot be compared to invading the privacy of a person you barely know.

PS:You dont know why i believe it is abusive, maybe some californian "cousin" came from the states and stayed in my house for 6 months, ate my food, and slept in my bed;And i deemed anything close to that as abusive.

Also you are very critical when i expose myself, yet the only information you provide of yourself is your current location.

I am sorry if i am being offensive, i have tried to be as apologetic as i can, i will consult with my local embassy, as i was instructed several times.

Also please have in mind when i post is because i just came from work, and if i post again within 10 hours is because i just woke up
If you don't see the issue with taking money off of a faceless governmental institution that idiots like me pay taxes into then fair enough. You're ENTITLED to that money. It's your birth right. To paraphrase Cecil Rhodes, obviously to be born Swiss is to win first prize in the lottery of life. Hop on the next plane; I'll tell them to prepare the red carpet at Zürich airport. Please do write back in a year's time to let us know how you get on.
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  #31  
Old 25.03.2015, 11:35
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

The financial assistance is not meant for permanent living without working. In fact, it should not even meant to be comfortable. It is meant for transitioning as a social safety net. For that, it is appropriate for him. But he will have to work eventually, then he would be making up for it.

Gotta benefit from all those taxes we collect from foreigners somehow. Why else do we tolerate their presence?

etefan: at your age, don't look for ease and comfort. Look for and gain experience. Try it. Fail, and fail well when you have to, then get up and try it again. I approve of this use of that money. And pay Switzerland back later. We're not commies over here, alright?
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  #32  
Old 25.03.2015, 13:16
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

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Try it. Fail, and fail well when you have to, then get up and try it again. I approve of this use of that money. And pay Switzerland back later. We're not commies over here, alright?
On the commies bit, it is a bit like communism, with capitalist rewards, run democratically. More or less.

Why not ask Uncle if you can stay there for a few days, get a return ticket for a week, 5 with uncle, then 2 in a hostel. Meet us on arrival at the HB for a quick one when you arrive. Next visit is a one way ticket. What can go wrong???
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  #33  
Old 04.04.2015, 15:34
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

To get benefits you need an address in Switzerland. Unless you are a refugee. So perhaps you should get to know your uncle a bit better.

If you don't have to pay rent you will get around 800 Francs a month to live on. So no going out to fancy restaurants, concerts or even the pub (or once a month). Get a good laptop and download every tv show, movie that exists.

The 800 is when they have deducted your health insurance etc,

I am addicted to Piratebay and boxed wine from Denners!! 9.50 for three litres. And not a bad tipple.

But seriously, if you want to go the benefits route. They give you a list of all the papers you have to give them. They will want to know everything about you. Then they will take about one to two months to process you and ask you lots of questions which will be in one of the three languages. Perhaps you may be lucky and find someone who speaks English but that is very doubtful. And don't even think about trying to lie to them, they are harsh.

Like the others, I would think seriously about this. It is not a stress free walk in the sunny, cow filled pastures for anyone trying to establish themselves here. Even those with Swiss Nationality coming back or arriving for the first time.

You are young!! Your Swiss nationality will not go away. Perhaps study and learn for a few more years and then come here!! I can tell you living on benefits is not fun, especially for a young person.

Last edited by Patsycat; 04.04.2015 at 15:58. Reason: added the cow reference!!
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  #34  
Old 05.04.2015, 03:12
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

Personally I think you are trying to achieve the impossible. Many young wanderers have come here before you, and low paid unqualified jobs are now very low paid, and hard to get! http://www.jobscout24.ch/de/ . https://www.manpower.ch/en/candidates/

I would think it would be best to remain where you are, and study for an IT qualification, maybe a Microsoft Certified Engineer certificate would be a good idea? You might then get a well paid job here. http://www.jobs.ch/en/suche/Informat...y-Telecom/53/0

In the meantime here are two books about life in Switzerland, buy the cheaper used examples, usually barely read and still in good condition,

Living & Working in Switzerland, http://www.amazon.co.uk/Living-Worki...in+Switzerland

Swiss Watching, http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/ref=nb_sb_...Swiss+watching

Your English is excellent, but you must learn good German (or French).
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  #35  
Old 05.04.2015, 09:08
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

I really think you should "come home". Most Brazillian's I have met are resilient, hard working, determined. If that is like you, and you have the passport up to date, really all you need to do is learn some German starting now, finish when you are here.
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  #36  
Old 20.04.2015, 02:58
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

Thanks for the replies , i have the information i need, someone was very kind as to instruct me how to achieve it, step by step.

Seriously it seems that some of you have never lived in 3rd world countries , the suggestions that you are posting seem reasonable, if i was living in newyork or in germany where my income would allow vacations or visits to switzerland .

On the education side i got the information i need on that as well (after all i want to study+part time if possible or full time) .

I did go to the embassy , am awaiting my id card , but the info i got there was very tiny and in italian (and it was for abroad social help).

btw: http://csias.ch/
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  #37  
Old 20.04.2015, 06:18
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

@etefan
Some of the reactions you’ve received on this thread express annoyance that you could even be contemplating arriving here and going straight to the Social Security Office. Such reactions could have a number of different explanations. Even if you don’t like what they said, or perhaps just the way they wrote it, I think it would be good for you to be able to understand them. I say this because, if you really come here and do go to the Social Security Office to claim benefits, and settle down here, (and then find work, or don’t) you will, again and again, meet with more people who make these same reproaches.

Many people in Switzerland (no matter whether rich or poor) work very, very hard. Some with foreign backgrounds under considerable financial pressure because they have relations back home, outside of Switzerland who have the illusion that “living in Switzerland” automatically equates to “picking gold off the trees”. Those facing the realities of their Swiss taxes and cost of living can sometimes feel bitter because their friends and family outside of Switzerland might have the illusion that everything here comes for free.

Perhaps some of those reading your posts could regard you as dreaming of a too-easy life. They might resent the fact that their own taxes contribute to the Social Security which you would be claiming.

Or they might be worrying about their own sons and daughters, or other young adults they know, who live from Social Security benefits and never manage to motivate themselves, to get out of that mind-set, or who are genuinely trying hard but cannot find work, and who do not manage to build a productive life of their own.

Some on the English Forum are highly qualified people who have been struggling for a long time to find work, especially if they are the husband/wife of someone who already does have a job. They know how competitive the job market can be.

Some here have struggled and been through a great deal of tedious paperwork to get their permits to be in Switzerland, and it might feel to them like it is just too easy, somehow unfair, if you can just fly here and immediately be entitled to help from the government.

And yet others here on the English Forum suffer greatly, emotionally and organisationally, because of their lack of command of a local language. They already live here, but they, like you, struggle to find the information they need about all sorts of aspects of their every-day lives, because they would like to read it in English. Some of them are disciplined and attend language school; others do not have the time, energy, health or academic ability, and may become too frustrated or depressed and give up trying to learn the local language. That, in turn, makes just about every other aspect of their lives more difficult.

My point in listing these various possible explanations is that you will meet the same sorts of arguments repeatedly, and at least some of them do have a good rational or at least an understandable emotional basis. I think it would be good for you to think about how you will cope with them, psychologically, once you’re living here.

Personally, I believe you are trying to gather information to find out what is, and what is not, realistic. I always admire people who, like you, seek to find out as much as they can before embarking on a project: you have already read about the SVP, you are willing to do menial work, you do not want to bother your uncle, you are asking for advice before taking your decision.

I really do understand that one could feel a strong desire to leave a third-world country to try to build up a new life somewhere else. And the most logical options would be (in no particular ranking)
a) a place which is seeking the skills you already have, or could obtain (e.g. engineering in another tropical country)
b) a country the language of which you already speak or might be able to learn relatively easily (e.g. all English-speaking countries, probably both Spain and Portugal, perhaps Italy)
c) a country for which you already have citizenship (Switzerland).

As I see it, for a) above you'd need to complete your engineering studies, and then, most likely, you'd be looking for work in another tropical country. If you want to get away from the stresses and insecurities of the third-world, then the factor of skills-for-a-tropical-environment somewhat limits the options. And then you’d most likely have a language barrier, too.

If you chose b), you’d have to get residence permits. If you chose any country in the EU you, as a Swiss citizen, would be able to reside freely, but only if you already have work. As I understand it, you cannot go to England, for example, and simply settle there, without first having a job. If you do find work, then the permit is automatic for you, being Swiss. The same is true, here, for British or Portuguese people who are automatically entitled to live in Switzerland, but only once they have actually found a job.

You’ve received quite a lot of suggestions along the lines of a) or b). However, a) doesn’t seem to provide you the way forward out of the third-world, and b) doesn’t seem possible, especially since you can’t afford to fly backwards and forwards to London or Dublin, looking for work.

Therefore, as far as I see it, your main two options are only either staying where you are or taking the big step and going for c). You are, after all, Swiss and have the right to be here.

If c), here are some ideas that could make it better.

If you have good contact/relationship with your father, and if he himself actually ever lived in Switzerland (and not merely his father, for example) ask him for every single idea he has, including especially the names, addresses and professions of all his school-friends and former work colleagues, his former neighbours, and for as much information he can find about the family-tree and any relations here.
Even if your father is not present or does not know these things, perhaps your mother might remember hearing some details.
If you can contact your uncle, do so. Ditto as with your father.

Many things in Switzerland work by word-of-mouth, by personal recommendation, by knowing someone who knows someone, and since it is a very small country, made smaller again by the language areas, any one of your father’s connections might be able to send out a number of enquiries on your behalf.

Make a list of things you already can do, besides what you learnt at university. Perhaps some of your father’s or uncle’s connections might be happy to offer you menial work for low wages, or in exchange for food and lodging, while you get started. You might consider non-academic things you learnt at school, through boy scouts, through a church or a youth group.
For example: cooking, cleaning the kitchen, chopping wood, sorting library books, going on shopping errands, helping people move home, caring for an elderly person, cleaning, babysitting working in the garden, playing the guitar, caring for animals (though you may need a licence to do this… if you think this is relevant for you, please read about that in other threads on this forum), drilling holes in walls, interpreting, polishing shoes, doing the laundry, helping someone tidy out their cellar or attic, fixing bicycles, repairing other things, cleaning out animal sheds, etc. And remember that not only will you need to learn the local language, but you can offer to practice conversation with anyone in the language(s) you speak.

Once you have that list, you might feel more comfortable asking your uncle: “May I please come to visit you, and is there anything at all I could do to help you? Or for your family or your neighbours?” You can tell him that you are willing to work hard to help anyone he can think of, and ask him if you may send him your list of immediate skills. Remember, too, that though many Swiss people have broadband at home, if your uncle happens to be, for example, a farmer, or a very old man, or not have a lot of school education, he might prefer to receive this information in a letter in an envelope.

Of the many threads on the English Forum about topics similar to yours, I’d recommend, in particular
simple non-skilled people job=inexistent?
by a young Swiss man from Argentina

where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
by a no-longer-quite-young Swiss woman from New Zealand

Base salary and simples jobs
by a young Swiss woman who is already in Switzerland, from Brazil.

You might consider writing to the Original Poster in each thread, and ask them how they’re doing now.

I’d recommend you make a FREE profile on Couchsurfing. Make your profile detailed. Try to meet other couchsurfers where you live now, and learn from their travel experiences. Search on the couchsurfing website to see whether there are, for example, any couchsurfers near you who have ever lived in Switzerland. Write thoughtful references for those you meet, and ask them each to a write a reference for you: this builds your profile. Search the Swiss couchsurfing folk, to see whether there is anyone who has specified on their profile that they are trying to learn a language you already speak… they might be very happy to receive you as a guest, at least for a few days. Remember that couchsurfing does not usually include food, but even so, you could meet people and, at least for a day or two at a time, have a roof over your head.

Here is an organisation which rescues food from shops which would otherwise have to throw it away. There are strict laws about “sell-by dates”, and after they expire, the shops may no longer sell certain products, even though the food itself may still be fine. So volunteers collect those foods from the shops (and the shops are happy not to have to throw the stuff away) and bring it to distributions points where anyone who has joined can collect the food for FREE. Obviously, there are no guarantees of supply, but at least some food can be obtained this way, rather than landing, tragically, in the trash. https://foodsharing.de/?page=fairtei...bid=108&id=360
The website “foodsharing.ch” doesn’t seem to be doing anything, and the “foodsharing.de” runs info not only about projects in Germany but also in Switzerland.

I think that could be at least some help to tide you over as you start. So, that’s some perspective for you, at least as a young man looking for something new, and with the right to live in the country of your citizenship.

However, I’d like to urge you to learn a local language, probably German.
Seriously, nothing is likely to work out well for you if you don’t.
Start now, where you are, at least online, and don’t miss a day’s practicing.

The people who make it in Switzerland, feeling completely comfortable speaking only English, are those in the top segment of wealth (e.g. very senior managers or in the entertainment business), who can afford to pay local staff to deal with organisational matters for them. For anyone not in that economic league, a weak command of the local language sooner or later means some door will remain closed: professionally, in the local supermarket, in making friends, getting along with the neighbours or in furthering their education.

My last bit of advice for today is: seriously consider moving to Switzerland ONLY if
a) you understand that you will be poor to start with, and
b) you are willing to work hard.
Living on Social Security benefits means being very, very careful with every cent. Long-term, that can be really depressing. At least while you have few skills, and even if you do have skills, you’ll be competing with many others better qualified than you. As you find work, you might end up scraping a living from lots of small jobs at low hourly wages. And as I keep repeating, you’ll need to allocate energy, time (and perhaps money) to learning the language.

Last edited by doropfiz; 20.04.2015 at 06:31.
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  #38  
Old 20.04.2015, 15:14
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

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Thanks for the replies , i have the information i need, someone was very kind as to instruct me how to achieve it, step by step.

Seriously it seems that some of you have never lived in 3rd world countries , the suggestions that you are posting seem reasonable, if i was living in newyork or in germany where my income would allow vacations or visits to switzerland .

On the education side i got the information i need on that as well (after all i want to study+part time if possible or full time) .

I did go to the embassy , am awaiting my id card , but the info i got there was very tiny and in italian (and it was for abroad social help).

btw: http://csias.ch/
Yeah, plan to get a job when you get here. Social help is not a permanent solution. See here:
Re: where to look for jobs with no job qualifications
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  #39  
Old 20.04.2015, 15:54
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

It is not so much as a desire to leave a third world country , it is more a desire to advance as a person . The reason why I brought up the economic situation a couple of times is because people simply fail to realize that I don't have the chance (because that is what it is ) to approach this matter the same way they did . And people complaining about tax money is common , but when they complain about a federal project ONE that is noble both in intention and in goals, and one that is successful and has had tangible results it does go to show .
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  #40  
Old 20.04.2015, 15:58
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Re: Guidance needed- [Swiss citizen abroad considering moving to CH]

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It is not so much as a desire to leave a third world country , it is more a desire to advance as a person . The reason why I brought up the economic situation a couple of times is because people simply fail to realize that I don't have the chance (because that is what it is ) to approach this matter the same way they did . And people complaining about tax money is common , but when they complain about a federal project ONE that is noble both in intention and in goals, and one that is successful and has had tangible results it does go to show .
Lol, you're in for a shock once you get here.
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