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Old 01.06.2015, 12:45
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Invoice dispute.

Hi

The story is, I enrolled on a social network in 2014, I chose the yearly type of subscription at the end of the sign-up process, which it wasn't my intention as I intended to choose only one month, but I didn't realize it at that moment as they asked me to pay one month fee only. I used the the social network for about three weeks and I stopped using it, then after one month the social network tried to get the second monthly fee from the credit card but the transaction failed, then they blocked the account immediately, after this they kept contacting me by Email, I think three times, however I wasn't using that Email, I forgot about his until this year when I received a bill from Ideal Payment on behalf of the social network the amount is almost 1000 CHF. they asked me to pay the whole year even the account was blocked for 11 months plus other charges.

To summaries the sign-up process was exhausting and ambiguous which lead me to choose the yearly subscription.

I don't want to pay for a service that I didn't use and I didn't intended to have.

What is the right process to follow to dispute the letter my self?
what's your general advice?

what is the legal implication of subscription based on service in Switzerland?


Thanks in advance.
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Old 01.06.2015, 12:51
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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Hi

The story is, I enrolled on a social network in 2014, I chose the yearly type of subscription at the end of the sign-up process, which it wasn't my intention as I intended to choose only one month, but I didn't realize it at that moment as they asked me to pay one month fee only. I used the the social network for about three weeks and I stopped using it, then after one month the social network tried to get the second monthly fee from the credit card but the transaction failed, then they blocked the account immediately, after this they kept contacting me by Email, I think three times, however I wasn't using that Email, I forgot about his until this year when I received a bill from Ideal Payment on behalf of the social network the amount is almost 1000 CHF. they asked me to pay the whole year even the account was blocked for 11 months plus other charges.

To summaries the sign-up process was exhausting and ambiguous which lead me to choose the yearly subscription.

I don't want to pay for a service that I didn't use and I didn't intended to have.

What is the right process to follow to dispute the letter my self?
what's your general advice?

what is the legal implication of subscription based on service in Switzerland?


Thanks in advance.
It sounds to me as if they're pushing their luck with you.

The first defence is to talk to them directly, ask to speak to a supervisor and explain your point of view without getting emotional or accusing them of anything.

Don't expect to be let off completely but try and settle for a more reasoable sum.

If that doesn't work, talk to a lawyer. Often a simple letter from a lawyer works wonders.
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Old 01.06.2015, 12:54
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Re: Invoice dispute.

They would have a very hard time claiming a full year of monthly fees when they've already blocked your account. They were perfectly capable of terminating your account after a reasonable time.

I'd go back and offer the one payment that failed, but tell them they should have taken this as a termination and closed the account from that point.

And reject outright any "fees" for collection.
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Old 01.06.2015, 13:41
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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It sounds to me as if they're pushing their luck with you.

The first defence is to talk to them directly, ask to speak to a supervisor and explain your point of view without getting emotional or accusing them of anything.

Don't expect to be let off completely but try and settle for a more reasoable sum.

If that doesn't work, talk to a lawyer. Often a simple letter from a lawyer works wonders.
You mean to talk with social network company?
What's the about this intermediary company Ideal Payment which they continues sending the bill with each time extra fee. ?
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:20
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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You mean to talk with social network company?
What's the about this intermediary company Ideal Payment which they continues sending the bill with each time extra fee. ?
I've never heard of them, but they sound like a debt collection company a bit like Irrtum Justitiae. I know that Irrtum mostly don't have a clue what the debt is about but just collect money on a comission basis. Because they don't know much and don't even want to know much, you can't achieve much by talking to them.
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:31
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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I've never heard of them, but they sound like a debt collection company a bit like Irrtum Justitiae. I know that Irrtum mostly don't have a clue what the debt is about but just collect money on a comission basis. Because they don't know much and don't even want to know much, you can't achieve much by talking to them.
If I ignore them what will happen?
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:34
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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If I ignore them what will happen?
It would be dangerous to ignore them. But only the social media company can call them off.

It's like being threatened by a rottweiler on a leash. You need to watch the dog carefully but you need to talk to the owner and hold him to account because the dog won't back off by itself.
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:37
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Re: Invoice dispute.

To summarise:
- You signed up to a monthly paid annual service?
- You used it for 3 weeks?
- The second payment failed.
- You didn't read the contract properly
- You didn't notify the service you wanted to cancel the subscription
- You don't want to pay

You'll be telling us "this wouldn't happen where you come from" next.
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:41
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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I've never heard of them, but they sound like a debt collection company a bit like Irrtum Justitiae. I know that Irrtum mostly don't have a clue what the debt is about but just collect money on a comission basis. Because they don't know much and don't even want to know much, you can't achieve much by talking to them.
What's the process followed, I mean how many reminder they will send? what it will happen after that? as I didn't sign any contract what's the legal implication? do they have the right to "harass" me?
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:46
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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do they have the right to "harass" me?
You mean ask for the money they believe is owed? Yes, why not?

You're not going to get anywhere ignoring the issue; if you think you have a case then write them a letter explaining it; if you don't then pay up now.

If you ignore it they will assume you're just a bad debtor, which is reasonable in the absense of any other details.
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:46
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To summarise:
- You signed up to a monthly paid annual service?
- You used it for 3 weeks?
- The second payment failed.
- You didn't read the contract properly
- You didn't notify the service you wanted to cancel the subscription
- You don't want to pay

You'll be telling us "this wouldn't happen where you come from" next.
To summarise:

- You signed up to a monthly paid annual service? it's seems yes
- You used it for 3 weeks? Yes
- The second payment failed.
- They blocked the account after the first month
- You didn't read the contract properly -> the contract was presented in pop-up , user have scroll and the process of sign-up was exhausting..it was presented after series of Q/A
- You didn't notify the service you wanted to cancel the subscription
- You don't want to pay -> No, how can I pay 1000 CHF for a social network service that I didn't use and even I wanted to, the account was blocked

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You mean ask for the money they believe is owed? Yes, why not?

You're not going to get anywhere ignoring the issue; if you think you have a case then write them a letter explaining it; if you don't then pay up now.

If you ignore it they will assume you're just a bad debtor, which is reasonable in the absense of any other details.
I already reply to them explaining them the situation but even though they send me a short reply that I sign-up for a monthly paid annual service, so I have to pay the whole year + their extra fees.

It will be interesting to know what the swiss law said about the contract type subscription based pricing used on Internet. if you have any idea?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 01.06.2015 at 17:08. Reason: merging consecutive replies
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Old 01.06.2015, 14:54
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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I already reply to them explaining them the situation but even though they send me a short reply that I sign-up for a monthly paid annual service, so I have to pay the whole year + their extra fees.
Pay the outstanding fees - and then cancel the contract. Chalk it up to experience of not reading thoroughly the contract.

Then move on.

If you want to fight it - go back to the service provider and see what you can negotiate but consideirng they failed to take the second payment last year I'd not expect much.
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Old 01.06.2015, 15:08
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Re: Invoice dispute.

The solution of paying I know it already but I do not want to pay a such an amount for the service that I didn't use, after the failed payment they should have taken this as a termination and closed the account from that point.

I just wanted to know what the swiss law said about this type of online contract , if the law in my side or not then I will write them a letter.
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Old 01.06.2015, 15:13
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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The solution of paying I know it already but I do not want to pay a such an amount for the service that I didn't use, after the failed payment they should have taken this as a termination and closed the account from that point.

I just wanted to know what the swiss law said about this type of online contract , if the law in my side or not then I will write them a letter.
The law is not on your side. You signed a contract for services and then didn't pay for them. Unless the contract indicates otherwise a failed payment does not automatically terminate the contract nor would it prevent the contract renewing as per the renewal conditions.

Search on here and you'll find 172 threads related to gyms; 68 threads relating to internet service provideds and 31 threads relating to insurance policies - all dealing with the same situation
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Old 01.06.2015, 15:31
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Re: Invoice dispute.

Not commenting on the principal sum, but just a note that it is illegal in Switzerland for a debt collection company to charge their fees to the debtor. The creditor commissioned their services and it is the creditor that is supposed to pay their fees as a deduction from the principal amount owed. Having said that, some of these debt collectors are incredibly persistent in their illegal claims against debtors
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Old 01.06.2015, 15:36
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Re: Invoice dispute.

My 2 cents is that you owe the annual subscription to the social network. You signed a contract and you need to fulfil your side of it. You may not like what was in the contract but there's nothing you can do about that.
What's not clear from your post is whether the 1000 CHF covers just the cost of the subscription or also includes fees from the debt collection agency. If it does, you can forget those.
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Old 01.06.2015, 15:53
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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The solution of paying I know it already but I do not want to pay a such an amount for the service that I didn't use, after the failed payment they should have taken this as a termination and closed the account from that point.

I just wanted to know what the swiss law said about this type of online contract , if the law in my side or not then I will write them a letter.
Then you should have read the contract, but you couldn't be bothered, neither did you actually cancel the contract as you couldn't be bothered with that either. So, as far as the company is concerned you have still have a valid contract... and are liable for the payments, so like it or not you're going to have to accept liability and stump up.

The law won't be on your side.
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Old 01.06.2015, 17:15
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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The solution of paying I know it already but I do not want to pay a such an amount for the service that I didn't use, after the failed payment they should have taken this as a termination and closed the account from that point.

I just wanted to know what the swiss law said about this type of online contract , if the law in my side or not then I will write them a letter.
Before looking at Swiss law, I'd suggest starting on the website and carefully reading the terms and conditions you agreed to - as you should have done during the sign-up process. I know, these agreements are long and boring and you'd probably have more fun pulling out your hair...but online agreements are still legally binding contracts.

Sometimes failure to pay might cancel your ability to use a service, at least until you do pay. It rarely cancels the service and your debt obligation. Otherwise no one would ever pay their bills.

Edit - Basically what dodgyken said.
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Old 02.06.2015, 10:17
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Re: Invoice dispute.

Another question is that of applicable law. Chances are, the company says in the T&C that only the law of its country applies, which you agreed to by signing up - in such a case swiss law probably has no effect at all.
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Old 02.06.2015, 11:50
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Re: Invoice dispute.

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Another question is that of applicable law. Chances are, the company says in the T&C that only the law of its country applies, which you agreed to by signing up - in such a case swiss law probably has no effect at all.
That may be so, but then it raises the question of how debt collection works. If the law of a foreign country applies, then surely only a court of that country can order the debt to be collected. Can a foreign court order a Swiss debt collector to collect a debt? Switzerland may have agreements with EU countries and others over mutual collection of traffic fines and possibly other debts. But does this extend to say countries like Tonga? I doubt it.
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