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  #81  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:07
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

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Excuse me, if the CO2 emission is reduced, what else is produced instead?


I think this is a misunderstandig that probably originates in the fact that ethanol has a lower energy density than petrol.

I haven't found an answer why there's no TetraPak recycling in Switzerland. I even don't know how efficiently they recycle it abroad. I think the TetraPak company should have an interest in organising something or else the state might want to collect them and charge for it? This was the motivation for private PET recycling if I'm not mistaken?
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  #82  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:10
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Re: Waste Side Story [recycling collection]

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Why Tetrapak recycling isn't currently available in Switzerland? That's the question... Aprox. 15 years ago they wanted to start a collection and recycling scheme same like PET or Alu and that time they also done a life cycle assessment. But for that moment it was too early to start any collection or recycling effort for their products while it was not so clear how the recycle this material at this time. But for the moment many countries in the world like denmark, austria, germany, belgium, france, turkey, italy, spain, U.S.A., Canada....... and many others are able to collect and recycle these countries. You can visit the web sides of producers of beverage cartons to see how they manage to recycle their products (sig.com, elopak.com, tetrapak.com). O.K. back to your question again : why beverage carton recycling isn't currently available in Switzerland? The answer is 28 incineration plant in Switzerland and they don't have to spend any money for any kind of initiative. But currently there are some efforts to start a collection and recycling system concerning this issue and as of end of january 2008 I can supply you more information.
Who committed the study on recycling feasibility for beverage cartons 15 years ago?

I can remember when recycling for PET was first introduced, followed by aluminium, batteries, tin, cardboard, glass, etc. (in no specific order). I also remember the claim that Tetrapaks weren't recyclable (at the time). The point that I don't understand is why no one (green activists, environment protection agencies, WWF,...) has ever submitted an initiative for the introduction of Tetrapak recycling after the process was developed and refined (I hope that it's reasonably efficient, right?).

[Edit: Nathu's post came while I was writing mine; that adds useful information. Still there's some unanswered questions...]
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  #83  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:15
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

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Excuse me, if the CO2 emission is reduced, what else is produced instead?



I believe this has been proven wrong.
MTBE vs. Ethanol
Which oxygenate reduces more harmful emissions?
Ethanol has twice the oxygen content of MTBE and can provide greater emissions reductions on a per gallon basis than MTBE. A National Research Council report stated that carbon monoxide (CO) emissions from ethanol-blended RFG are lower than emissions from MTBE-blended RFG. (Oxy-Fuel News, 9/27/99)

Why is ethanol more environment-friendly than MTBE?
Ethanol is produced from renewable, homegrown supplies of biological feedstock, such as cellulosic material and reduces our dependence on foreign oil and fossil fuel imports. MTBE is produced from methanol, a corrosive and poisonous alcohol made from natural gas, a non-renewable fossil fuel.
MTBE resists biodegradation, while ethanol biodegrades within two to four hours and cannot contaminate drinking water. (Canadian Renewable Fuels Association)
MTBE already has contaminated 71% of Santa Monica’s water supplies and has been found in many reservoirs and lakes from Mt. Shasta in the north to Lake Tahoe in the east and Lake Havasa in the south.
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  #84  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:30
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

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I think this is a misunderstandig that probably originates in the fact that ethanol has a lower energy density than petrol.

I haven't found an answer why there's no TetraPak recycling in Switzerland. I even don't know how efficiently they recycle it abroad. I think the TetraPak company should have an interest in organising something or else the state might want to collect them and charge for it? This was the motivation for private PET recycling if I'm not mistaken?
A Roundtable meeting focusing on beverage carton waste will be held on 28th of January together with manufacturers and retailers of beverage cartons, responsible authorities from BAFU to discuss possibilities to find out best treatment (recycling or incinerating) ways for these cartons. As everybody knows even in very modern incinerators with very high tech. filteres; burning of wood based material cause increasing of CO2 emissions. Therefore it is not a best solution incinerating of 20K tons of beverage carton in one of the 28 MSW incinerators even with energy recovery
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  #85  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:39
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

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MTBE vs. Ethanol
Which oxygenate reduces more harmful emissions?
Ethanol has twice the oxygen content of MTBE and can provide greater emissions reductions on a per gallon basis than MTBE. A National Research Council report stated that carbon monoxide (CO) emissions from ethanol-blended RFG are lower than emissions from MTBE-blended RFG. (Oxy-Fuel News, 9/27/99)
Why is ethanol more environment-friendly than MTBE?
Ethanol is produced from renewable, homegrown supplies of biological feedstock, such as cellulosic material and reduces our dependence on foreign oil and fossil fuel imports. MTBE is produced from methanol, a corrosive and poisonous alcohol made from natural gas, a non-renewable fossil fuel.
MTBE resists biodegradation, while ethanol biodegrades within two to four hours and cannot contaminate drinking water. (Canadian Renewable Fuels Association)
MTBE already has contaminated 71% of Santa Monica’s water supplies and has been found in many reservoirs and lakes from Mt. Shasta in the north to Lake Tahoe in the east and Lake Havasa in the south.
Eh? Excuse me?
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  #86  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:47
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Re: Waste Side Story [recycling collection]

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Who committed the study on recycling feasibility for beverage cartons 15 years ago?

I can remember when recycling for PET was first introduced, followed by aluminium, batteries, tin, cardboard, glass, etc. (in no specific order). I also remember the claim that Tetrapaks weren't recyclable (at the time). The point that I don't understand is why no one (green activists, environment protection agencies, WWF,...) has ever submitted an initiative for the introduction of Tetrapak recycling after the process was developed and refined (I hope that it's reasonably efficient, right?).

[Edit: Nathu's post came while I was writing mine; that adds useful information. Still there's some unanswered questions...]
I am not the representative of beverage carton sector that's why I am not able to answer correctly why there was no any initiative concerning tetrapak recycling issue at that time. Beverage carton is forgetten rubbish in Switzerland and I would like to start an action against it. but, I am going to ask greenpeace, environment protection agencies and WWF Switzerland to learn about their interest in this issue. I will be happy if you also ask their opinion. thanks
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  #87  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:50
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

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Eh? Excuse me?
excuse me but, do you know what MTBE is?
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  #88  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:52
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

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excuse me but, do you know what MTBE is?
By chance I do, but I don't see how your answer fits my question...
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  #89  
Old 14.12.2007, 18:55
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Re: Waste Side Story [recycling collection]

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but, I am going to ask greenpeace, environment protection agencies and WWF Switzerland to learn about their interest in this issue. I will be happy if you also ask their opinion. thanks
That's already on my "Things to do when I move back to Switzerland" list...
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  #90  
Old 15.12.2007, 00:02
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

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Excuse me, if the CO2 emission is reduced, what else is produced instead?



I believe this has been proven wrong.
If you believe this has been proven wrong pls. have look at following link:
http://www.zercustoms.com/news/Rinspeed-eXasis.html

or please explain why you believe that has been proven wrong....

Concerning your other question : pls refer to the following link www.reapcoalition.org/pdfs/clearingtheair.pdf

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  #91  
Old 15.12.2007, 06:47
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Re: Waste Side Story Rubbish or Resource ??? To burn or not the burn ???

Dumping empty tins at the metal collection point question-

Do I need to take the paper label off first? I assume the tins get metled for recycling and the paper would get burnt off anyway. Can someone throw some light?
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  #92  
Old 16.12.2007, 01:07
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Re: Waste Side Story [recycling collection]

No, at least here where i recycle i don't have to take the paper off tins.
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  #93  
Old 16.12.2007, 02:32
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Re: Waste Side Story [recycling collection]

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No, at least here where i recycle i don't have to take the paper off tins.
I have my yearly missive about rubbish in front of me, complete with dates for the bin men and paper collections. Under tin cans, it says to use the last of your dishwater to rinse them out and remove the label.

This is a significant improvement over previous years when they were telling us to put them through the dishwasher. This kind of brought out the nitpicking side of me, so I lobbed them an e-mail and asked what I should do if I didn't have a dishwasher. Knock me over with a feather, I got a serious reply, but laced with a bit of humour, along the lines of the above.
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  #94  
Old 08.01.2008, 12:23
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Disposal of Tetrapacks

Does anyone know where we can dispose off tetrapacks.I refer to the 2 litre cartons of milk or juices we get from Migros.Is this to be thrown alongwith kitchen garbage in Zueri sacks? I referred the calendar, general information and advice available from the Disposal and Recycling Deptt,
but it is all in German
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  #95  
Old 08.01.2008, 12:25
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Re: Disposal of Tetrapacks

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Does anyone know where we can dispose off tetrapacks.I refer to the 2 litre cartons of milk or juices we get from Migros.Is this to be thrown alongwith kitchen garbage in Zueri sacks? I referred the calendar, general information and advice available from the Disposal and Recycling Deptt,
but it is all in German
Tetrapacs have a foil lining so they cannot be disposed over in paper or card. Thus they go in the normal garbage.
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  #96  
Old 08.01.2008, 12:26
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Re: Disposal of Tetrapacks

Isn't there a recylcle bin for milk cartons in Migros (and Coop)? If so, is it only for the plastic ones?
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  #97  
Old 08.01.2008, 12:29
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Re: Disposal of Tetrapacks

If you pull open the flaps on the bottom you can squash them pretty flat, then put the cap back on to keep them that way.

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Isn't there a recylcle bin for milk cartons in Migros (and Coop)? If so, is it only for the plastic ones?
It's just for the plastic ones as far as I can see.
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Old 08.01.2008, 12:31
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Re: Disposal of Tetrapacks

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If you pull open the flaps on the bottom you can squash them pretty flat, then put the cap back on to keep them that way.
Now you're talking about the plastic ones, that can be taken back to coop fat or flat. Tetrapack, as any self-respecting Swede will tell you, does not have caps.
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Old 08.01.2008, 12:32
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Re: Disposal of Tetrapacks

By normal garbage we refer to the kitchen garbage we throw in Zueri sack? that means I can throw my cardboard milk and Juice cartons along with it?
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Old 08.01.2008, 12:33
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Re: Disposal of Tetrapacks

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Now you're talking about the plastic ones, that can be taken back to coop fat or flat. Tetrapack, as any self-respecting Swede will tell you, does not have caps.
Careful being so "genau" you are almost sounding Swiss. Don't tell me you have started looking at your watch whenever the train is over 60 seconds late
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