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  #41  
Old 15.08.2015, 09:17
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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Sounds good at a glance, and broadly speaking I'm with you. And yet, I beg to differ as with everything, there can be too much of a good thing.

For instance, Zalando gives the right to return until 100 days, no questions asked. Reportedly 50% of all orders are returned, often requiring markdowns. Apparently a big number of orders (double digit percentage) are issued with the intent on returning them - after having worn the dress over the weekend.

So perhaps rules should be amended? if customer wants immediate delivery he has no right to cancel. The right only exists if delivery is delayed by a certain number of days, during those days. Or something along these lines.
So how does this affect you personally? Or are you just someone who sees it as his duty to preach about good moral behaviour towards faceless businesses that don't really give a crap about any of us and probably don't even lose any sleep about this issue in the first place?

Last edited by Richdog; 15.08.2015 at 13:41.
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  #42  
Old 15.08.2015, 13:43
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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Your experience suggests there are no consequences Swiss-side which is what I was most concerned about. You are right to say I should contact the seller to advise and get in a request for a refund minus postage. Yes I wasted some of their time, but it happens.
Well from what I remember strictly speaking you are responsible for the charges although the Post usually does not bother with it.

I would be more concerned about what they report back to the sender... In cases of large items that will incur heavy shipping costs they contact the seller and ask him what he wants them to do. Telling them that you did not bother picking up the item is different to telling them that they were unable to deliver it. And that might have issues when getting your refund.
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  #43  
Old 15.08.2015, 15:29
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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If 50% if orders are returned and Zalando is still offering the same policy one can only presume that they are still ahead of the game.
They may make a profit for the first time in 2015, still won't cover back losses to date. Reminds me of the Amazon business model

In August 2014, Zalando announced revenues of $1.4 billion in the first half of 2014 with net income of $16.6 million, an improvement from the more than $90 million net loss during the same period in 2013. On its current track, the retailer, which operates in 15 different European countries, may have the first profitable year in its history. Today, the company is overseen by a management board consisting of Gentz, Schneider and their former classmate, Rubin Ritter.
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  #44  
Old 15.08.2015, 16:08
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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They may make a profit for the first time in 2015, still won't cover back losses to date. Reminds me of the Amazon business model
Nonetheless they continue to offer the liberal return policy. So there must be a business case.

Who knows - perhaps the business case plays the long game, putting more emphasis on establishing a loyal customer following to gain market share?

And even if there isn't a business case for their return policy, it's not our look-out, it's theirs. Zalando is free to do business as it sees fit - and sink or swim.
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  #45  
Old 15.08.2015, 16:11
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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So how does this affect you personally? Or are you just someone who sees it as his duty to preach about good moral behaviour towards faceless businesses that don't really give a crap about any of us and probably don't even lose any sleep about this issue in the first place?
sometimes you can have sympathy without being affected personally- I know many young people, here, there and anywhere who have tried to start new businesses- some succeeded, some failed- not always due to poor planning.
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  #46  
Old 15.08.2015, 16:30
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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Nonetheless they continue to offer the liberal return policy. So there must be a business case.

Who knows - perhaps the business case plays the long game, putting more emphasis on establishing a loyal customer following to gain market share?

And even if there isn't a business case for their return policy, it's not our look-out, it's theirs. Zalando is free to do business as it sees fit - and sink or swim.
The business model is you put every else out of business, then you can charge as much as you like. I guess the same model will float down in other industries & put many people on the forum out of a job. Having a choice is more important to me than anything else.
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  #47  
Old 15.08.2015, 16:42
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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sometimes you can have sympathy without being affected personally- I know many young people, here, there and anywhere who have tried to start new businesses- some succeeded, some failed- not always due to poor planning.
I'm not sure that's a completely relevant anecdote in the context of the thread, or the question that was directed at Urs.

Last edited by Richdog; 15.08.2015 at 18:50.
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  #48  
Old 15.08.2015, 18:24
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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Well from what I remember strictly speaking you are responsible for the charges although the Post usually does not bother with it.

I would be more concerned about what they report back to the sender... In cases of large items that will incur heavy shipping costs they contact the seller and ask him what he wants them to do. Telling them that you did not bother picking up the item is different to telling them that they were unable to deliver it. And that might have issues when getting your refund.
If an item is sent back to the sender by Swiss Post, it doesn't matter for what reason (item refused/addressee unknown/item not collected), the person it was intended for (who refuses it/gave an incorrect address/doesn't collect it) is certainly not liable for the return postage costs, Swiss Post pays these. The original sender is then sometimes charged the return postage and sometimes has to pay these in order to get them item back. These are simply costs that anyone has to bear if they wish to have the shipment back in their possession. It is the cost of doing business. Swiss Post does not charge the original/intended addressee anything.

As a buyer I have refused/not collected parcels and have not been charged for this either by Swiss Post nor by the sender/seller.

As a sender/seller myself I have had parcels returned to me for various reasons, but have never had to pay anything to Swiss Post for parcels that were sent untracked/unregistered.
Whereas when they were sent tracked/registered, I was charged the return postage. This can be paid in postage stamps at the post office counter when collecting the returned item. The post office clerk can stick the stamps on the parcel, cancel them and then hand you the parcel. Alternatively you can pay the fee in cash or by Postcard. If the parcel comes back to you directly via the postman whilst you are present, you can only pay the fee in cash and not in stamps. This was my experience.
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Old 19.08.2015, 21:33
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

Here it their official legal answer:

Madame,
Nous accusons réception de votre mail du 14 août dernier et avons pris bonne note de votre demande.
En principe, une fois une commande passée, elle est ferme et on ne peut plus revenir en arrière. A moins que les conditions générales du vendeur n’en disposent autrement et offrent à l’acheteur un délai de rétractation. Il est donc important, avant de passer une commande sur internet, de bien s’informer sur les conditions d’achat et notamment les éventuelles possibilités d’annulation.
Les frais d’expédition sont en principe également réputés dus, à moins, encore une fois, que les conditions générales du vendeur n’en dispose autrement.
En conclusion, le principe est : une commande vaut conclusion du contrat.
En espérant avoir ainsi répondu à votre demande, nous vous prions de croire, Madame, à l’assurance de notre considération distinguée.

Service Juridique BAS
Kim Vallon, juriste

So, the order constitute a contract, and transport costs are due- unless the Conditions of Sales are clearly stating otherwise.


So Mek, any further development? How about going back to the website of that company and looking for Conditions of Sale, copy and paste here, out of interest?

Last edited by Odile; 19.08.2015 at 22:08.
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Old 20.08.2015, 09:01
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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So how does this affect you personally? Or are you just someone who sees it as his duty to preach about good moral behaviour towards faceless businesses that don't really give a crap about any of us and probably don't even lose any sleep about this issue in the first place?
How does my post affect you pesonally? Not at all? If so, what grounds do you claim for yourself that you are denying to others(me)?

Apples somebody? Or oranges perhaps?
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  #51  
Old 20.08.2015, 09:06
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

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En principe, une fois une commande passée, elle est ferme et on ne peut plus revenir en arrière. A moins que les conditions générales du vendeur n’en disposent autrement et offrent à l’acheteur un délai de rétractation. Il est donc important, avant de passer une commande sur internet, de bien s’informer sur les conditions d’achat et notamment les éventuelles possibilités d’annulation.
Les frais d’expédition sont en principe également réputés dus, à moins, encore une fois, que les conditions générales du vendeur n’en dispose autrement.
En conclusion, le principe est : une commande vaut conclusion du contrat.
I got a similar reply in a rather poor Italian when I enquired to a website, a few years ago, I had ordered a phone from, what the conditions were for sending it back, as it was not what I was expecting.
They quoted what you just did and stated that original postage plus a restocking fee of Fr.75.-- was due and would be deducted from the refund and that the return postage was the client's problem too (although this is often the case, I knoew that and would have just affixed stamps etc.).
As I felt this (albeit possibly still legal) exceedingly poor customer service I decided not to use the site again and fortunately was able to sell the phone to a colleague who wanted just that phone for the price I paid for it. I did this to avoid the hassle and arguments in sending it back. Nevertheless having paid by credit card I would have been also within my rights to claim a reversal of the transaction if I had have sent the parcel back by registered post. After all errors happen and it could have been that the phone was faulty, broken, the wrong colour, the wrong one entirely. In those cases the shop has to listen to your argument.

It is true that it can be a costly business for a firm to accept returned stock and sort it out, but it is also common sense for them to do so.

Internet stores already benefit from huge savings on rent and shop management.

Not only should accepting returns be viewed as a part of the cost of doing business, it also should be considered customer-friendly.

Customer satisfaction ought to be top priority.

Last edited by plumtree; 20.08.2015 at 09:18. Reason: minor edit
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  #52  
Old 20.08.2015, 09:26
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Re: Deliberately not taking receipt of a parcel

The position outlined by BAS is, again, a reason why I don't purchase from Swiss retailers. I'm not surprised at the legal position - but it reinforces my decision to patronize online retailers elsewhere, where more customer friendly attitudes prevail.

Many Swiss retailers, online or bricks-and-mortar, seem to be largely concerned with only the current sale and generally don't seem to give a thought to developing customer loyalty, likely an artefact of the time when one had no choice but to shop in the one or two local stores. With a 'captive audience' retailers could treat customers cavalierly and customers had to accept that attitude.

But those days are gone. We can now purchase from anywhere in the world, from retailers whose offerings match our priorities, be it price, selection, guarantee, attitude towards customers, etc.

And thank goodness for that.
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