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  #21  
Old 17.08.2015, 17:21
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Re: Internet v People

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And here we still are having a civil discussion. I just wanted to know why it is so difficult to engage with a stranger that lives next door, as opposed to one that lives across town? I have seen other threads on here for people offering beer and pizza to help with moves, as opposed to going to their immediate neighbours.
Online community, or the one around you? What is the difference?
Because by advertising on the forum, they know that the person who helps them will speak English, and in addition will be pleased to help them without any potential awkwardness through simple virtue of having offered to help in the first place. It's not complicated logic imo.
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Old 17.08.2015, 17:23
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Re: Internet v People

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My question is, what is the difference from a stranger you "meet" online, who you do not know where they live or are coming from, to a stranger that is your neighbour? I personally dont mind at all the extra tap money from time to time, but still it confuses me how why people prefer to get help from one group of strangers over another.
Fear of being denied help.
On the internet, you will either hear "yes" or in worst case nothing.
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  #23  
Old 17.08.2015, 17:25
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Re: Internet v People

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Because the real world doesn't have blobs to tell us about a person's character. After all, you'll be trusted because EF tells me you have a reputation beyond repute.
But how much character or references does a person need to lend a helping hand?
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Old 17.08.2015, 17:33
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Re: Internet v People

Need any help grinding that ax mate?

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You clearly followed them in order to engineer some form of contact (in the first instance staring at them until they got uncomfortable enough to mention it to ech-other, and in the second, "goin in for the kill" as you put it), and I am just saying that some consider this kind of behaviour an invasion of personal privacy.
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Old 17.08.2015, 17:40
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Re: Internet v People

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Need any help grinding that ax mate?
I was just pointing out relevant facts which were well in context of the topic!
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  #26  
Old 17.08.2015, 17:44
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Re: Internet v People

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Because by advertising on the forum, they know that the person who helps them will speak English, and in addition will be pleased to help them without any potential awkwardness through simple virtue of having offered to help in the first place. It's not complicated logic imo.
No it's not complicated logic at all. But I wanted to ask what a variety of people felt, and not just going with one idea and not thinking any further about it.
Integration comes from trying to get involved with your community. Even if you aren't speaking the same language, doesn't mean you cannot find a common ground.
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  #27  
Old 17.08.2015, 19:38
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Re: Internet v People

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I was just pointing out relevant facts which were well in context of the topic!
No, you were just a miserable twat, like always.

I'm surprised no-one tells you this more often, as you deserve it.
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  #28  
Old 17.08.2015, 19:53
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Re: Internet v People

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No, you were just a miserable twat, like always.

I'm surprised no-one tells you this more often, as you deserve it.
I've told you before, stop flirting.
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  #29  
Old 17.08.2015, 20:02
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Re: Internet v People

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I'll bite...


Purely my observation as an outsider, but from what I have seen in my neighborhood being 'in debt' to another is considered a very bad thing. People do not ask for favors because favors create an obligation.

For example, I made the 'mistake' of giving all my neighbors a jar of my homemade jam - something one does back home just to be neighborly. No one thinks twice about this back home, and I didn't think twice about it here.

The neighbor who 'interprets' Schwyzer social norms to me explained that what I had done put the recipient under obligation to do something similar in return. And since few people do their own canning, I created a stressful situation where the recipient had to go out of her way to even things out.

So what I intended as a neighborly gesture turned out to be a faux pas.
With the utmost respect, sometimes I wonder if you live in the same country than me
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  #30  
Old 17.08.2015, 20:07
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Re: Internet v People

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No it's not complicated logic at all. But I wanted to ask what a variety of people felt, and not just going with one idea and not thinking any further about it.
Integration comes from trying to get involved with your community. Even if you aren't speaking the same language, doesn't mean you cannot find a common ground.
So, who did you borrow those roof straps from again?

Meanwhile, I do ask the locals for help sometimes. Usually the local mechanic, if I need a quick weld or to pull some frozen bearing or to dump some oil (but I give him paid work as well), and my neighbor to water the plants and feed the animals when we go away (but I give him CHF 10/day).

Tom
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  #31  
Old 17.08.2015, 20:27
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Re: Internet v People

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With the utmost respect, sometimes I wonder if you live in the same country than me
We don't.

YMMV by canton, Gemeinde, language, generation, phase of the moon, etc.

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  #32  
Old 17.08.2015, 20:29
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Re: Internet v People

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I'll bite...


Purely my observation as an outsider, but from what I have seen in my neighborhood being 'in debt' to another is considered a very bad thing. People do not ask for favors because favors create an obligation.

For example, I made the 'mistake' of giving all my neighbors a jar of my homemade jam - something one does back home just to be neighborly. No one thinks twice about this back home, and I didn't think twice about it here.

The neighbor who 'interprets' Schwyzer social norms to me explained that what I had done put the recipient under obligation to do something similar in return. And since few people do their own canning, I created a stressful situation where the recipient had to go out of her way to even things out.

So what I intended as a neighborly gesture turned out to be a faux pas.
Some people have strange ideas about what are Schwyzer social norms. I had a neighbour who worked for a soft drinks company and gave all the neighbours a crate. I did not see any evidence of stress outside of the few usual suspects who react oddly any way.

I once helped a neighbour whose invalid mother visited and had a problem handling the wheelchair. The neighbour visited me after and tried to give me CHF20; I just put this on my weird neighbour list; none of my other Swiss neighbours thought this was a social norm reaction!

I suggest you find somebody else to translate for you.
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  #33  
Old 19.08.2015, 11:56
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Re: Internet v People

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But how much character or references does a person need to lend a helping hand?
Depends on what services you need, right? I will not ask anyone here to babysit my kids. Simples. This is something I'd ask someone I know and trust (like my neighbours, for example). Difficult to get that on an online community.
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  #34  
Old 20.08.2015, 11:29
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Re: Internet v People

If you are friends with your neighbours, then I think you might ask one another for a favour. Friends do that.




The trouble is that even the smallest favour could mean at some point you may need to reciprocate. If you ask your neighbour to keep an eye on your house while you are away, just looking for any suspicious behaviour, does that mean when your neighbour goes away you need to watch his house? One of my neighbours own a chalet and they are away very often. I would not want to be asked to watch their house.
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Old 20.08.2015, 11:43
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Re: Internet v People

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The trouble is that even the smallest favour could mean at some point you may need to reciprocate. If you ask your neighbour to keep an eye on your house while you are away, just looking for any suspicious behaviour, does that mean when your neighbour goes away you need to watch his house? One of my neighbours own a chalet and they are away very often. I would not want to be asked to watch their house.
Exactly! And sometimes it can be the thin end of the wedge.
Where I once lived I had a neighbour who travelled a lot. She asked another neighbour to 'water a couple of plants and just empty the letter box' while she was away. In time, it really meant watering quite a few plants, emptying the letter box (no 'No junk mail' sticker!) and sorting the post, forwarding some things and trailing over to the Post Office to collect a packet from the Post Office every so often - and this for weeks on end. And of course, when the helpful neighbour wanted to go away for a few days herself, she needed someone to take over all that in addition to emptying her mailbox and watering her flowers.
Glad I was an alien and wasn't asked!
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  #36  
Old 20.08.2015, 12:21
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Re: Internet v People

We've just been really lucky that over the last 18 months we can count two sets of neighbours as friends. This summer, I watered the plants of 3 sets of neighbours, and when we went on vacation ourselves, I felt like I had to choose who I was closest to!

And we do babysit for each other - a few hours here and there, and so far, no one has complained that she has done more babysitting hours than the others. I am glad we live amongst civilised people
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  #37  
Old 20.08.2015, 13:40
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Re: Internet v People

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If you are friends with your neighbours, then I think you might ask one another for a favour. Friends do that.
This is key.

Here (in my neighborhood, YMMV, blah blah blah) one needs to have established a friendship first, that is, to be on Du terms, before asking a favor without worrying about obligation and reciprocity. And establishing 'Du' friendships is difficult, as countless posts here on EF attest. Even more so in a neighborhood where we have to live crowded together like sardines; many people prefer to keep neighbors at a 'Sie' remove, to preserve some semblance of privacy.

Asking a favor of someone with whom one is on 'Sie' terms creates a debt, and the resulting unease on both sides.

This is a very different social norm to what some, perhaps many, of us are used to back home. Where I come from, US midwest small town and suburbia, proximity is enough. One can ask a favor of one's neighbors or do a favor for one's neighbors without presuming a bond or creating an obligation. One doesn't think anything of it, it's simply 'neighborliness'.

The difference here took quite some getting used to.
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  #38  
Old 20.08.2015, 14:18
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Re: Internet v People

I don't want to disturb or inconvenience my neighbours, whereas I don't care about you EF nutjobs.
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  #39  
Old 20.08.2015, 16:04
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Re: Internet v People

Internet - Advantage - You can find people with right skills, tools, willing to help, easy to find their availability etc etc.

People - Against popular belief, people DO want to help. I was pleasantly surprised when one neighbor came forward to help us move the sofa. The other day another one heard my efforts to make a hole in the wall and offered his tool and some very useful tips. When I notice people moving into the apartment, I usually ask if they need any help.
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  #40  
Old 20.08.2015, 16:41
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Re: Internet v People

Is it not just a numbers game? Ask a couple of thousand internet weirdos and you're likely to get a response reasonaby quickly. Asking the neighbours, you have to ask one at a time (possibly interrupting whatever they're doing) until you get a volunteer.

But, yeah, I get what you mean. And I tend to agree.
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