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Old 17.08.2015, 14:31
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Internet v People

Just some observations...I have seen advertised on this forum, people who will offer to pay x amount of CHF for assistance such as moving a table up their own stairs to their apartment, a couch down to the cellar, or a someone that has a power drill to come and drill some holes(nothing sophisticated).

And yet, they could go to someone in their own building, or neighbours, knock on the door, and ask them for help. While I recognize that there is often a language barrier, the worst that can happen is they do not understand you, but most of the time people here do understand us.

My question is, what is the difference from a stranger you "meet" online, who you do not know where they live or are coming from, to a stranger that is your neighbour? I personally dont mind at all the extra tap money from time to time, but still it confuses me how why people prefer to get help from one group of strangers over another.
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Old 17.08.2015, 14:45
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Re: Internet v People

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My question is, what is the difference from a stranger you "meet" online, who you do not know where they live or are coming from, to a stranger that is your neighbour?

Well in my opinion I'd say that strangers who are your neighbours are more likely to be nice and trustworthy compared to the ones online. As they live close or directly next to you, you will see them from time to time. So If they mess up or betray you or whatever they know you are going to confront them when you meet them again. Other as the online strangers. They can tell you or do anything whilst knowing you are never going to see them (again).
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Old 17.08.2015, 14:51
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Re: Internet v People

You are not even comparing like for like. One is a professional service that you pay for, and the other is a neighbour who you would expect to do it for free and inconvenience by doing so.

Your examples also seem a bit unrealistic... I've never personally seen for someone to advertise for someone to come and help them to move a table or sofa only within their own building, it usually involves collecting it from somewhere first, "man with van" style. Do you have any examples?

Also, what if you ask your neighbour to come and drill some holes and then they screw it up or cause some damage, without the necessary professional insurance? It's just not worth the hassle of inconveniencing them when you can pay 50-70chf to have things done properly.
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:00
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Re: Internet v People

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You are not even comparing like for like. One is a professional service that you pay for, and the other is a neighbour who you would expect to do it for free and inconvenience by doing so.

Your examples also seem a bit unrealistic... I've never personally seen for someone to advertise for someone to come and help them to move a table or sofa only within their own building, it usually involves collecting it from somewhere first, "man with van" style. Do you have any examples?

Also, what if you ask your neighbour to come and drill some holes and then they screw it up or cause some damage, without the necessary professional insurance? It's just not worth the hassle of inconveniencing them when you can pay 50-70chf to have things done properly.
Hello Rich. I am trying to compare like for like. Because what I am trying to compare are people asking for anyone to come and help, or people that go as far as saying they don't want to pay Swiss professional price, "just someone to come and drill a few holes". I realize my comment about the holes might be understood in the way you have mentioned, but what I meant was asking your neighbor to borrow a drill from and then asking he or she if she knew any better about what to do as they might have the same walls.

The table moving came from the EF jobs offered section that was about 1.5 years ago. But I am also there are many forum groups in Zurich these days and it is the same with them as well. Its not necessarily a slam on people. Just why asking for un professional help from a stranger is different then one on your same street?
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:06
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Re: Internet v People

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Just some observations...I have seen advertised on this forum, people who will offer to pay x amount of CHF for assistance such as moving a table up their own stairs to their apartment, a couch down to the cellar, or a someone that has a power drill to come and drill some holes(nothing sophisticated).

And yet, they could go to someone in their own building, or neighbours, knock on the door, and ask them for help. While I recognize that there is often a language barrier, the worst that can happen is they do not understand you, but most of the time people here do understand us.

My question is, what is the difference from a stranger you "meet" online, who you do not know where they live or are coming from, to a stranger that is your neighbour? I personally dont mind at all the extra tap money from time to time, but still it confuses me how why people prefer to get help from one group of strangers over another.
I don't know about others, but I don't like to disturb my neighbours. I've got the "nerve" to ask them whether they have an item that I need and whether they can lend it to me for a while, but that's it. Physical work is done by friends (and of course I'd return the favours) or payed professionals.
Of course I trust them but I don't want to abuse their kindness. Simple. Back home is called "common sense".
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:09
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Re: Internet v People

Maybe folk don't like to ask their neighbours, as their neighbours might want them to return the favour.
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:10
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Re: Internet v People

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Maybe folk don't like to ask their neighbours, as their neighbours might want them to return the favour.
What would be wrong with that?
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:11
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Re: Internet v People

Etiquette around here is that you may only ask for favors from people with whom you are on 'Du' terms. Which pretty much puts the kibosh on neighborly helping hands as 'per Sie' is the norm.

(Except us - since we are 'shallow' Americans neighbors don't expects us to know or follow the social proprieties and so feel free to ask us to help them out. Or perhaps it's because OH, being an American, has a whole man cave full of tools - and the skill needed to use them.

But even so, I know better than to ask a neighbor we have helped out to reciprocate. The answer would always be 'no'.)

---

But I'm with Rich on this. When I need something done in a specific way to a specific standard I do not feel that I can, in good conscience, ask this of a friend, let alone a neighbor who might be only an acquaintance.

For instance, dogsitting. I have very specific expectations, and the consequences of not following my instructions could potentially be catastrophic. Therefore I only hire a professional, and I pay well.
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:24
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Re: Internet v People

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Maybe folk don't like to ask their neighbours, as their neighbours might want them to return the favour.
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What would be wrong with that?
Don't ask me. It's merely a reply to the original question.
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:47
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Re: Internet v People

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Maybe folk don't like to ask their neighbours, as their neighbours might want them to return the favour.
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What would be wrong with that?
I'll bite...


Purely my observation as an outsider, but from what I have seen in my neighborhood being 'in debt' to another is considered a very bad thing. People do not ask for favors because favors create an obligation.

For example, I made the 'mistake' of giving all my neighbors a jar of my homemade jam - something one does back home just to be neighborly. No one thinks twice about this back home, and I didn't think twice about it here.

The neighbor who 'interprets' Schwyzer social norms to me explained that what I had done put the recipient under obligation to do something similar in return. And since few people do their own canning, I created a stressful situation where the recipient had to go out of her way to even things out.

So what I intended as a neighborly gesture turned out to be a faux pas.
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Old 17.08.2015, 15:55
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Re: Internet v People

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I'll bite...


Purely my observation as an outsider, but from what I have seen in my neighborhood being 'in debt' to another is considered a very bad thing. People do not ask for favors because favors create an obligation.

For example, I made the 'mistake' of giving all my neighbors a jar of my homemade jam - something one does back home just to be neighborly. No one thinks twice about this back home, and I didn't think twice about it here.

The neighbor who 'interprets' Schwyzer social norms to me explained that what I had done put the recipient under obligation to do something similar in return. And since few people do their own canning, I created a stressful situation where the recipient had to go out of her way to even things out.

So what I intended as a neighborly gesture turned out to be a faux pas.

Some people are ridiculous. She could have given you something else in return, I don't know - a nice bunch of flowers from her garden, a jar of honey etc. Fortunately, where I live people are a bit more laid back.
But I suspect she just wanted to keep a distance.
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Old 17.08.2015, 16:11
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Re: Internet v People

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What would be wrong with that?
You are wrongly assuming that people want to create expectations from their neighbours. I always say hi to my neighbours and have a chat where possible, but never would I ask them for anything unless it really was an emergency, it's just not a cultural thing here unless you are on very close terms with them. I ask friends or hire professionals for that kind of stuff.

I think the difference is that you seem to be the type who wants to almost force relations with people and maybe doesn't click on to the fact that not everyone will desire or appreciate that.

Last edited by Richdog; 17.08.2015 at 22:25.
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Old 17.08.2015, 16:14
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Re: Internet v People

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I'll bite...



For example, I made the 'mistake' of giving all my neighbors a jar of my homemade jam - something one does back home just to be neighborly. No one thinks twice about this back home, and I didn't think twice about it here.

The neighbor who 'interprets' Schwyzer social norms to me explained that what I had done put the recipient under obligation to do something similar in return. And since few people do their own canning, I created a stressful situation where the recipient had to go out of her way to even things out.

So what I intended as a neighborly gesture turned out to be a faux pas.
To counter, a good friend, who is Swiss, her Swiss older neighbors always give a load of canned goods from their land to her. She cannot reciprocate until her own land has produced what she is growing, now 2 years on, so she feels the need to bring her, her mail, or any other little thing.
I often just go ahead and volunteer when I see a neighbour struggling with furniture or groceries up the stairs.
I do appreciate you sharing your experience though.
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Old 17.08.2015, 16:19
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Re: Internet v People

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You are wrongly assuming that people want to create expectations from their neighbours. I always say hi to my neighbours and have a chat where possible, but never would I ask them for anything unless it really was an emergency, it's just not a cultural thing here unless you are on very close terms with them. I have ask friends or hire professionals for that kind of stuff.

I think the difference is that you seem to be the type who wants to almost force relations with people and maybe doesn't click on to the fact that not everyone will desire or appreciate that.
Force? Not at all. I do like being helpful, and for me that doesn't require we are friends afterwards.
Predominantly my question was directed at foreigners towards Swiss)foreign neighbours. Because I even see expats(Americans) here not bothering to ask American colleagues to help after work with a light move, or the like. Which is very common back in the sates to do. Why does the atmosphere here change even if people are the same from another area?

All of my Swiss neighbours I have asked for help or have volunteered help to, have not rejected the situation.
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Old 17.08.2015, 16:30
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Re: Internet v People

Being helpful can mean you get taken advantage of. I used to be helpful. Now I keep my head down. I used to help anyone with anything & thought everyone was that way but it seems to me there are people out there that are givers & others that are takers. Obviously not as rigid or (removes colour references) but there are obvious tendencies in certain people.
I also agree with Richdog about the sort of relationship you have with the people around or neighbours. I also agree about the feeling of obligation to return the compliment.
I am not sure it's a Swiss v other nationalities thing or an age thing but there do appear to be nationalities like the Irish for example who are more used to bringing food round in times of crisis or whatever which seems strange to others.
Good discussion Confloozed.
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Old 17.08.2015, 16:47
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Re: Internet v People

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Force? Not at all. I do like being helpful, and for me that doesn't require we are friends afterwards.
Predominantly my question was directed at foreigners towards Swiss)foreign neighbours. Because I even see expats(Americans) here not bothering to ask American colleagues to help after work with a light move, or the like. Which is very common back in the sates to do. Why does the atmosphere here change even if people are the same from another area?

All of my Swiss neighbours I have asked for help or have volunteered help to, have not rejected the situation.
Just because you come from the same country as someone doesn't mean you share an immediate bond of brotherhood and nationalism that creates an instant personal connection. In the UK and I'm sure also the USA, many neighbours don't talk or do favours for each-other in busy residential areas.

As for your Swiss neighbours, they were probably too polite to refuse your request once you made the decision to bother them with it.

I actually remember you writing once something similar to that you sometimes followed your fellow Americans around when you were out and about in town and heard their accents in order to approach them... if that's not forcing situations then I don't know what is?

EDIT - Found them... "Swiss" Staring

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Yesterday I was in a store outside of Zurich. I over heard an American couple speaking English. Whenever I hear English, my ears pop up a bit, especially American, because, well I do not hear it everyday. I am not saying I am listening to conversations per ce, but I do have that sudden rush that comes over me like "cousin?"

So, after noticing them in the store, and coming across their paths more then once, I overheard one say to the other "do you see that, he is staring at us." And the other responded "Swiss people".
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I always think I can pick Americans out from the crowd, without hearing them talk at all. I might even stalk a total stranger occasionally waiting for them to talk to see if I am right. Not stalking them back to their house, but around Landi, for sure. I have even gotten a few numbers from a few.

One couple, I was sure were Americans. We kept bumping into each other doing shopping around the lake. At one point, I went in for the "kill", to find out where they were from in the states.

As it turned out, they were both Swiss, from 2 different cantons. Oh the embarrassment. Still, agreed to have drinks later.

Last edited by Richdog; 17.08.2015 at 22:26.
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Old 17.08.2015, 17:04
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Re: Internet v People

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Just because you come form the same country as someone doesn't mean you share an immediate bond of brotherhood and nationalism that creates an instant personal connection. In the UK and I'm sure also the USA, many neighbours don't talk or do favours for each-other in busy residential areas.

As for your Swiss neighbours, they were probably too polite to refuse your request once you made the decision to bother them with it.

I actually remember you writing once something similar to that you sometimes followed your fellow Americans around when you were out and about in town and heard their accents in order to approach them... if that's not forcing situtions then I don't know what is?

EDIT - Found them... "Swiss" Staring
You're quite right on the first line, I am asking why that is.
I didn't follow them around to approach them, I followed them to hear english.

So, not forcing anything.

I disagree about the politeness. As it cant mean from all walks of life they actually dont want to help me in Switzerland, but they were just polite, and then down the road asked me for help...
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Old 17.08.2015, 17:06
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Re: Internet v People

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You're quite right on the first line, I am asking why that is.
I didn't follow them around to approach them, I followed them to hear english.

So, not forcing anything.

I disagree about the politeness. As it cant mean from all walks of life they actually dont want to help me in Switzerland, but they were just polite, and then down the road asked me for help...
You clearly followed them in order to engineer some form of contact (in the first instance staring at them until they got uncomfortable enough to mention it to ech-other, and in the second, "goin in for the kill" as you put it), and I am just saying that some consider this kind of behaviour an invasion of personal privacy.
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Old 17.08.2015, 17:11
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Re: Internet v People

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You clearly followed them in order to engineer some form of contact (in the first instance staring at them until they got uncomfortable enough to mention it to ech-other, and in the second, "goin in for the kill" as you put it), and I am just saying that some consider this kind of behaviour an invasion of personal privacy.
Oh yes. I remember that now. Perhaps in life I want to make social contact with people. If there was no internet, how else would it get done?
I am sure some people feel all sorts of behaviour as one form of an extreme to the next. People have the right to be polite and decline.

You did it with me before.

And here we still are having a civil discussion. I just wanted to know why it is so difficult to engage with a stranger that lives next door, as opposed to one that lives across town? I have seen other threads on here for people offering beer and pizza to help with moves, as opposed to going to their immediate neighbours.
Online community, or the one around you? What is the difference?
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Old 17.08.2015, 17:17
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Re: Internet v People

Because the real world doesn't have blobs to tell us about a person's character. After all, you'll be trusted because EF tells me you have a reputation beyond repute.
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