The term 'retarded' has now been replaced by 'learning difficulties' in many/most English speaking countries because of its negative connotation. I am not seeking political correctness here, merely stating facts.

Lob, (assuming that's your name), I wonder how you would feel if you had children with 'learning difficulties'? In a recent post titled 'Who are we?' you wrote that your occupation was an IT Monkey - maybe an intelligent one too. A bit of sensitivity when posting such posters would definitely not go amiss from English Forum members with families/children - assuming there are some/any other than me.

For those families I have met who have children (who would be classed as 'retarded' - as in your poster), this poster would cause a lot of upset and sadness. They probably have enough challenges to handle and don't need this.

Regards.

Nina

Ok, I try to stay out of threads like this. Since I run this forum, I try not to get drawn into discussions about yahoo groups vs this or other forums.

But I do feel it necessary to point out a few things in response to some things I've seen posted on thread:

* Web based forums are not mailing lists. In other words, forums such as this are called forums, yahoo groups are not forums.
* Mailing lists are not forums. To refer to mailing lists (such as yahoo groups) as forums is not correct, and only causes further confusion for people who are used to using mailing lists (thinking they are forums).

To expand on the above - there are many people who aren't familiar with web based forums who come from the old world of mailing lists. Things work differently, and often an adaptation of behaviour is required, a settling in period, etc. In the past this has caused some confusion. Continuing to use the term "forum" to describe a mailing list doesn't really help.

I also feel that posting comparisions on the number of members and messages from mailing lists that have been established longer than five years to englishforum (established 1 year) doesn't really prove anything.

What I'm saying is this (and hopefully I speak for almost all members here): I'd rather have 1 intellegent message rather than have to sift through 100 messages of utter rubbish to find something intelligent. Yes, I'm an adult, and I do know where the delete button is. But i'm sorry - I have enough other rubbish to delete, and I don't have unlimited time to filter through rubbish. I'm guessing that I'm not the only one in this situation, therefore I tend to tune out of things which are unfiltered or unmoderated. If I wanted to wade through rubbish all day, I'd turn off my spam filter.

So let's try not to get into a situation where we compare apples to oranges - English forum has very little in common with yahoo groups, and I'm very happy about that. There are people that prefer web-based interfaces, moderation, structure, organisation and the extra features that web-based solutions offer. Then there are also people who refuse to move from their email client, and like their stuff unmoderated and unorganised. I'm perfectly happy to live and let live, but I do get a little annoyed when comparisons are drawn with statistics which speak nothing for the quality of the messages, or the intelligence of the people posting them.

Nina - your initial messages were on topic, since you were discussing issues pertaining to the subject of this thread. However, posting a long list of all the available yahoo groups is off-topic for this thread. There are other threads where resources for expats were discussed and if my memory serves me correctly it's already been posted.

If this were a mailing list reposting resources would be a good idea, but it's not - so there's no need to repost information which is already here.

Just another note about the question of what would happen if this forum grew to the same size as expats in Zurich? Would the same thing happen? Absolutely not. Why not? Because the moderation policy is different. Because there is a structure. Because there are ways of influencing the behaviour of individual posters, the list goes on.

Another disclaimer - I have absolutely no problem with Carmen, have never said anything bad about her. I've merely commented that there doesn't seem to be much moderation going on there - and those were the limits of my comments. I just want to be clear on that point.

I think there is room in the marketplace for different ways for people to express themselves. Both web forums and mailing lists serve different purposes and have different types of users. Let's all not lose sight of that.

For those who choose to come here because they are unhappy with other forums or mailing lists- I respect your decision. For those who wish to stay with the mailing lists (or them in addition to forums) I also respect your decision.

Nina
I said it was in bad taste, frankly I know about children with learning difficulties so don't get all holier-than-thou on my arse

Lob, I wasn't trying to be "holier-than-thou on your arse" as you sweetly put it. I have a cousin brother who has severe learning difficulties hence wrote what I wrote. I have deleted that message now. Relax - no more blah blah blah!

Mark, I have also deleted the message listing all the yahoo groups. It was just some factual information - that's all. Apologies to all if you thought it wasn't relevant - it's gone now!

Regards.

Nina

Nina,

You have deleted every single message you have posted in this thread. As I said in my earlier message, the discussion about yahoo groups was on topic, the huge list of groups was not. However, you've deleted everything you said.

This is also not playing by the rules. Other people (including me) have responded to some of your comments. Since you have removed the original messages, our responses look very strange. It becomes difficult for someone coming to this thread later on to follow the discussion.

In a real conversation you can't remove your side of the conversation, once something is said, it is said.

In fact, the default settings for this software do not allow people to edit or delete their posts once they have been replied to, for this very reason. I enabled it thinking that this feature wouldn't be abused. I have undeleted your posts, except for the long list of yahoo groups. As I said, this list is not a bad thing, it just doesn't belong on this thread. There are other threads where we discuss resources for expats in Switzerland, and it would be more appropriate there.

Fair enough Mark - I understand and agree. I just didn't want my messages being more "blah blah blah blah......" You do what you feel is appropriate.

Regards.

Nina

On a forum it's ok for people to disagree about things. You took exception to Lob's comments, he took exception to you taking exception. That doesn't mean you have to feel like you have to "unsay" what you said. In the case of moderation it's a bit different since the moderator points out that something is off topic / against policy or whatever and then it should be removed, moved as appropriate.

A small word of advice - don't take Lob too seriously, I'm sure he doesn't take himself too seriously either

on the faceless internerd forum that this is, that is how you appeared.

I, on the other hand, did acknowledge that the image was in bad taste when I posted it - but I can see the amusing meaning beyond the bad taste.

I blah-blah-blah-ed you because I felt you were over-reacting, even though you have an unfortunately-afflicted family member, it's not a dig at those with disabilities - rather a dig at those who argue on the internet

Okay - understood. You've explained why you said what you said. I've explained why I wrote what I wrote. Let's shake hands and move on! Life's too short to dwell over every little detail.....

If you come to the Expo this weekend, do come and say 'Hello'!! I have a stall too and am dead excited about my new banner made by Scott!!

Regards.

Nina

I just love happy endings! Bravo, guys!

I'd just like to say that I have used forums for some 4.5 years now, admittedly children based ones, rather than expat ones. (How sad am I? - I just have kids!) There were always problems with people (shucks!) and there are some real weirdos out there (I won't bore you but some people make up some really odd stuff. Perhaps this is just a result of having kids/wanting to have kids etc.)

I have learned that you take things as you find them.

I looked at expat mums in ch but that didn't really do it for me. I like forums. I like the chat and feedback. OK, there are fewer postings here than my usual forums, but all mothers are neurotic (even when attached to their pcs!) and post lots. Also life here is pretty specialised I find.

I think that the frequent posters are wonderful (OK - I am buttering you up - but why not?) and if they are occasionally provocative, then why not? On parenting forums this has been "sub topiced" to "Debating" so as not to offend the majority! There are some really heated debates.

I also find the answers here very helpful and there are some wise people out there who are helping people because they can. That is genuinely very nice to see. Nobody gets paid to post (except beer occasionally I believe?).

To sum up - here is small but growing. It's nice to see what is going on before you sign up. People are friendly.
And most importantly, it's in English.
(I am finding my English grammar shocking at the moment - I keep wanting to say German phrases instead!!!) Help!

Mark - keep it up - and thanks

Hi
A little intro
I moved to Zurich in july with my husband and 3 month old baby, from montreal.
I am looking for a exercise class,to exercise and maybe meet people, that i could do with my little 3 month old . I am living in seefeld now but will soon be moving to feldmeilen. any suggestions?
thanks
nat

Nat - welcome . You might get a better response to your question if you create a new thread with a title that reflects your question. Appending your question to an old thread that is unrelated in topic may mean that you are less likely to get responses.

Best of luck to you and congrats on your little one.

Nat. hello! I was thinking more of your baby. In Meilen there is Gymboree in case you want to take your baby there once a week. You might meet other mom's there. I really like Gymboree for my kids but it is too far for me. Good Luck!!! A.D

God love you Diem, this foolishness must be stopped.

Maybe you can bribe a mod to quietly rename the topic

Isn't the term Swissies from the Hedge Fund world?