Hi, sorry if this post is in the wrong place. Me my hubby and my toddler have been looking for a new country to live in. We've just spent 9 months in California, and was unimpressed. We are currently in the UK and although there are things we love, there are things we loathe as well.

Switzerland has come up on the list of countries that may work for us, but would love some input from being actually living there, vs. the crap you read online and what people tell you from visits.

My hubby works from home, website development, he has clients, can work from anywere so that isn't a problem, but would be interested to hear what people in Switzerland make, as well it's always nice to make more money isn't

We plan on un-schooling for our son (and future kids) I know some parts of the country are OK with this others say you can't, I don't know if it's a real problem in those parts of not, maybe they wouldn't care if we aren't Swiss. We do plan on teaching our son German and French, he already reads a german book with his father everyday.

I know traveling is very important for us, and well being in the middle of europe does help. If you book in advance, the flights to the UK are cheap, is it the same for flights to other places?

Do the Swiss like kids? I know when we were in San Francisco when ever my son was cranky everyone tried to make him smile and were lovely! But when we went to Portland they gave us dirty looks and moved tables at restaurants. In LA everyone told me how gorgeous my daughter was everyday (funny that they couldn't see he was a boy in a little dress shirt and fancy trousers!)


Sorry for the long post, TIA for your responses

I think the only ones that can decide if a place is right for you, is *you*.

My suggestion would be to first read the book Beyond Chocolate to get an idea of what Switzerland can be like from an expat perspective. See if, from that, you feel you would be more comfortable in one region vs. another. Consider the languages, as well as proximity to airports or major rail connections, and size of towns/cities that interest you.

Then spend some extended holiday time here doing some initial exploration to look into how you feel being here, what it is like being in a place where you may not speak the language (you don't address whether you do or don't in your post - but if you don't, that is a significant life factor). Get off the beaten tourist paths. Check out rental websites to identify places you might like to live. Go to those places. Grocery shop, go to a cafe with your son, etc. Switzerland is like any place - right for some people, not for others. The experience of living here (in my opinion) is as diverse as the people living it, so it is hard to say if, for example, my experiences of living here are going to be relevant or similar to yours, since everyone is different.

You don't say much about what attracts you to Switzerland, and what you don't like about the UK. The only thing I've picked up on is that you want a family-friendly place. As the parent of a toddler, I would say that my experiences here have been generally good. But again, it's hard to be more specific because your question was a bit broad. But having moved from the US to the UK to here, I can say that in my experience, the best judge of whether a place is right for you is you, and I would suggest a grain of salt or two when considering the opinions of others, as again, their situations and preferences etc. could be vastly different from yours, and what drives you bonkers may float their boat, and vice versa.

Best of luck with your research.

ETA: just go to some websites (Swiss, Easy Jet, ebookers.ch, etc.) to price airfares and that will enable you to make your own judgment as to whether it's expensive here. It depends on who you fly and where, what the price will be, but so far (in the few months I've been here) I've not seen anything less than about CHF60 round trip, but will be interested to see what Easy Jet will offer out of Zurich when they return later this year.

Sorry I will give a bit more info

Hubby is good with german (he's dutch) and basic french. I am learning, but have him for the hard stuff. We've done more German than French since my son is obsessed with it

The UK use to be a much nicer place to live. It's changing for the worst, it's almost impossible to rent with a child, and buying has been impossible without jumping hoops. The people have gotten to be rude and not very interested in taking care of their kids. Of course this is not everyone, just our experiences.

Maybe we're looking for that ideal place, as we can live anywhere and don't have family to tie us to a place.

sadly the link doesn't work, and the book is not avail on amazon.co.uk, would you know of any other good books?

The site seems to be having problems today. It is Bergli Books. You can put the title into google and view the cached page if you like, today, and I would think their site will be back up soon. If not, you should be able to order over the phone. Their phone number is +41 61 373 27 77.

I understand how you feel about the UK. We were there for 15 months. Although we did manage to buy (and sell) a house there it was a very different system from what we were used to (US or Switzerland). My gut tells me you will probably like it here, but as I said, take my opinion with a grain of salt . Best of luck with your research. I'd say my top two pieces of advice would be to read Beyond Chocolate, and sign up for a language class ASAP after your arrival. Both will help you tremendously with your efforts towards assimilation, IMO.

Yeah buying in the UK is sometimes horrid! I have a place in florida, I am selling, all I needed was $$$ and a passport. In the UK they don't like if you are self employed, and the whole electoral role system is absurd. SO, if a person registers at their parents from 18-28 their credit will be better than someone who never does, no matter if the person pays their bills etc. And by being on the electoral role, anyone can get your address, see if you live alone etc.

Did you find buying easier to do in Switzerland? I know even renting here is impossible, we had to beg to allow a child in a 4 bed house, they didn't have to clean the place, and then we had to pay 6 months up front. Not like in the USA were they can't discriminate!

We've not bought here (yet) but my inlaws have on more than one occasion. It was very simple - agree price with seller, they got a loan with one phone call from their bank, that was it. I think though the stories I've read here (do a search for threads on buying a home) outline a bit more to the process than that, but overall it does not seem any more difficult to me than buying in the US.

Renting here was easy for us (with both a child and two dogs) but my husband is Swiss. I have heard stories of people not wanting to rent (and sell) to foreigners/giving preference to Swiss, especially in areas where there is a lot of competition for properties. We are just outside of Zurich so were not competing for a uber-trendy spot in town.

A further thought on one of your earlier posts, as to people's responses to kids. Some older people will say hello and chat to my daughter. But if your kid is on the train, having the mother of all screaming meltdowns (been there, done that) don't be surprised if you get some irritable looks, or people move to another car. (I don't blame them - if she weren't mine, I'd have left for another car too! ). Generally I find people polite in a reserved way, helpful with getting pushchairs on/off trains, and appreciative of my efforts to use my fledgling German. It's clean, graffiti is removed from our local train station within a couple of days of its appearance, people are generally respectful/polite, and I don't brace myself to go out as I found myself doing in the UK. But language is an isolating factor, hence my recommendation to get going with lessons on the local language ASAP.

HTH

Thank you so much! One more question if I may
Are people busy-bodies like in the UK? We aren't the "normal" parents, we co-sleep, babywear, and well a whole host of other not the norm things (although they should be! Well, everyone in the UK, and most in the USA like to be nosey, ask stupid questions and TELL us what we SHOULD do. Well I find this rather annoying. And in the UK there is a whole system of nosey people paid by the government to snoop (health visitors they are called) They are suppose to be there for advice on babies and kids, but instead they have the reputation of meddling, giving bad advice and snooping into everything you do. As we want to have another baby soon, well I do NOT want to go somewhere like this or even worse!

And yeah I don't blame someone wanting to run when my son has a meltdown, (on the plane though they couldn't But, there is a nice way of doing it and a rude way of doing it. And if your in your 30's with 2 kids you shouldn't be shocked if a toddler gets upset when his food is slow (an hour is too long!)

I'm finding your posts very amusing PoshPants, considering the king of slagging off Switzerland and the Swiss get from quite a few British on here at times re nosey people and the likes

You mean it's worse??? Everyone always says people keep to themselves, don't air their dirty laundry extra? I'm confused now

Some people seem convinced that every Swiss is nothing but a cop, constantly watching you and the likes...On the other hand, countless celebrities love the place because no one bothers them and they can drop by the local shop or pub without any hassles.

My personnal take is that we (Swiss) are not particularly bothered about other people's business (see Banks...) and it does lend us an air of coldness with people from countries were social interactions with unknowns are greater.

Posh Pants must be a windup merchant.....these obsevations cannot be genuine

No wind-up. As a new mother in the uk I can confirm what she is saying. How we raise our children in England seems to have become of national interest. Which is odd considering how non child friendly the country/society is.

No, I am not a wind-up anything! What I say can be backed up, and sadly there are even MANY stories of the Social services in the UK taking away newborns and placing them for adoption in order to meet government targets!

I'm new here, but can promise I'm an honest person with genuine questions

Hello PoshPants-

You asked about unschooling. You might like to join...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/homeschoolingch

and ask some questions about that there.

On http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AP-Expat-Moms
there are quite a few of us APers living in Switzerland.

You can also go here...
http://www.mothering.com/discussions
to meet others living in Switzerland.

Have you thought about Norway? We lived there for 4 years in Stavanger and thought it was great! The big problem though was that it is not central in Europe...

Eugenics........confirms my suspicions

Thanks, I hadn't thought of looking at MDC, some info there about homeschooling seems it's easier in the french parts.


And it's sad someone has to make comments that i am not for real, very un-welcoming for a newbie to be honest!

Methinks Posh Pants is not the windup merchant on this thread . . .

We too left the UK in part because of feeling that we did not want to raise our child there. IMO the questions/concerns posed about the culture here in Switzerland are valid for someone considering relocating with a small child.

Posh - In my experience the Swiss have lived up to the sterotype of being private about their/your personal business. There are stories about apartments where people get wound up about the washing machine schedules/spaces, and other house rules but if you are in a newer building, many have private washrooms with a washer and dryer for each tenant. I personally feel the newer buildings make it that much easier to avoid that type of conflictual interaction. Of course, people are people and it's always a bit of a lottery when it comes to neighbours. And at the end of the day, you will only know what your experience is if/once you make a move.

As to being "alternative" - I see lots of moms wearing babies, I don't think anyone will ask about your sleeping arrangements, there is no health visitor system, and restaurant service will vary with the establishment, but there are books (such as In and Around Zurich with Kids) that can advise as to kid-friendly eating spots.

Hi Posh Pants
I would you like to back up some of your rather "amusing" unsubstantiated claims with facts( links)- working with health visitors and social services every day, I feel you are unjustly attacking them. The girls in our hospital, work very hard, in extremely stressful situations at times, and I would think they are doing a pretty difficult job given their resources/pay etc.

I too am moving from the UK, one reason being I want a better life for my kids. However ther are some aspects of the Swiss society that I feel you may not be keen on-eg. no washing on such a day, no noise after such an hour, no flushing loo after 10pm, wearing high heels after certain time! they can seem very petty to people, however if you can get used to it then its not such a bad place.
jo

If you do a simple bbc search you can find many news stories to confirm what I have said. also the AIMS site is also un-impressed with the actions of many HV's and social workers. I know there are some well meaning people in the system, but the way it's set up is wrong.

I'm not too bothered with washing stuff as I will make sure I have my son, flushing after 10pm, well I've read if it's needed then it's not a problem. Also I assume if your in a new bldg you won't hear as much as an older one. I know I lived in a brand new bldg. in a very rich part of LA, I heard EVERYTHING my upstairs neighbors did! So rules can be a good thing

What are the reasons why your moving, I'd love to hear them!