This I very much doubt, you buy your rolex from a street vendor in italy for $20, then you know its a fake.

The only possible way I could see anyone walking around with a fake thinking its real, is if it was given to them as a present, but the person giving it would know it was fake.

In some cases, I don't think it's that bad of a thing to wear fake. Especially, if you are thinking about buying a real one. Wearing a fake gives one the chance to try it out for a while and very often leads to the purchase of a real one.

try it out? how do you try out a watch?? test its time keeping performance? I've never heard of anyone buying a fake watch to see if they should buy the real deal.

If you want to see if its too big / small for you just pop into a dealer and try one on.

This sounds like mainly an aesthetic trial rather than ergonomic or functional.

From the value-for-money point of view, China is becoming a valid watch option. Not fakes but brands standing on their own feet:
http://www.usseagull.com/

Check these ones. I've read some good comments about them considering their cost.

Most people have a clock staring at them on their desktop, a clock in their car dash board, or on their mobile phones. People don't really need watches anymore. Watches are really more for aesthetics now than functionality.

Whilst I completely agree that to fake in order to cheat is wrong, if you copy a product, sell it as a copy, and then someone buys a copy knowing it's a copy and telling people it's a copy, is that different?

I think so.

It's a bit like buying a 49chf chair from Fly that looks almost like a 400chf Arne Jacobson one. They know it's a copy, you know it's a copy, and anyone who cares will recognise it as a copy. But what's the harm? People who can only pay 49chf for a chair won't pay 400... but this way they get a bit of the glamour and the look they're after.

Same goes for VERY cheap watches.

Gloves are off if you're out to rip people off though...

If someone was to "front" with a fake Rolex, then they are indeed fake. And I doubt anyone who buys a fake Rolex goes around saying, "Hello, my Rolex is fake. How are you?"

the problem is it devalues the brand, if everyone is wearing fake rolex's then whats the point in buying a real one, eveyone will think its a fake anyway. I've been asked quite a few times if mine is fake.

anyway, back on topic

Best swiss watch brand, depends on your criteria, best as in most successful, best as in most expensive, best as in value, best as in time keeping? etc etc

I'm not a watch expert, I just like them and buy the ones I like regardless of brand

I have a few swiss watches from swatch up, swatch are very good value, can be a bit delicate (I had to replace a clasp on one, but that was 5chf).

at the moment the watch I wear most is my swiss military by hanova
http://www.hanowa.ch/pages/Quartz/NavigatorPro.html model 6-5100.13.013 which was bought on impule from engelberg, and cost less then a service on my rolex

Not bad, a 1/2 tourbuilion for less than 5000 us dollar. At least they should have had chosen another name than sea gull.

China will take over in terms of units sold, if it hasn't already. The question is whether the Swiss branding of quality and design will hold through. I believe it certainly will in the high-end market. I'm not sure about the mainstream market.

This site is quite useful to see the models with price (in Euro):

http://www.watchtime.net/watches/

By the way I like Moon phase in the watches and looking for a nice one around 2000 CHF.

There's many beautiful and nice swiss made watches, but when it comes to Rolex that's something different, It's expensive but you're very close to get for what you pay for Rolex watches,,,
for me Rolex is the best,,,

You get what you pay for, same as with cars, A Fiat is a car, so is a Ferrari.

You seem quite knowledgable about watches Tom if you know a half Tourbillion is normaly well more than USD 5'000.--.

Why did you make such stupid posts earlier about real or fake watches, why we shouldn't wear metal watches, why some plastic rubbish at Chf 50.-- is so much superior to a Rolex. I'm not critisising you in any way, it's just very difficult to understand your viewpoint in order to try and have a logical conversation.

this site has them from $995 so his info is a little out of date
http://www.tourbillonwatches.com/

You got me wrong, what i wanted to make clear that many brands use the same clockwork e.g. valjox 7750 in IWC, Hublot,Breitling, which has a price tag over Sfr.5000.- Some manufacturer might buy the parts from ETA (swatch group) and assemble, adjust and modify their clockworks slightly (that is what they might say). I assume the labour intensive production of most mass produced clockworks or parts for it does happen in China. Only something of 50% of the assembling is made in Switzerland to be allowed to call it swiss made.

If IWC would assemble, modify and adjust their clockwork bought from ETA why don`t they produce a chronograph certificate when they do so much to make sure the will get the best quality out of it.
Here an article which explains some modifikation IWC would make on the Portoguise. But I don`t think that is true they would do any noteworthy modifikation.
http://www.pmwf.com/Watches/Series/I...Movements.html

Also because i piked up a watch a few years ago with exactly the same movement IWC claims to modify eg. replacing of steal bearings with jewel bearings. but my one has 39Jewels and is adjusted, a few more.
Here is the Watch, on the description it says it has 25 but thats wrong, it is a 39 jewel bearing watch :http://www.uhren-shop.ch/shop/p259.html

The picture looks crapy made, but i realy reccomend having a look on older Louis Erard watches. They are very well made and you dont pay for the name and think about if there is Breitling or IWC written on it. You would pay a few times more.

Yes and...?

Sorry to those who own a IWC, Hublot or Breitling that I was clarifiing that their movements probably are made partially in china and bought from Swatch.

Not all fakes are easily identifiable.

One funny example is the Frank Muller Crazy Hours... unlike the real deal the fake ones from China actually work! (I'm not kidding)

As to fake Rolexs; there are some very skillful counterfeiters out there who buy plain Jane secondhand Rolex watches in stainless steel, then have 18K gold cases made in Italy that are indistinguishable from genuine, add a dial and sell it as one of the more collectible and rare models. Sounds like a lot of work, but they essentially double their money or better. These make it past even seasoned pro watchmakers. The guts are real, the rest isn't.