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  #1  
Old 30.11.2011, 00:28
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Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

Hello

I'm an EU B-Permit Holder (valid until 2014). My unemployment benefits have run out a couple of months ago, and there is still no job in sight. Can I claim dole money without putting my permit at risk?

Thanks in advance for any good advise.

Sahasrara
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  #2  
Old 30.11.2011, 00:37
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Re: Social welfare benefit

In German, perhaps this might help:

http://www.personenfreizuegigkeit.ad...ngen.0006.html

I think it depends if you have voluntarily left your previous employment ( and perhaps which EU country you come from ).

http://www.bsv.admin.ch/soziale_sich...x.html?lang=en

Quote:
However, social welfare is not covered by the agreement.
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  #3  
Old 30.11.2011, 00:46
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

I haven't left my job voluntarily. However it was only for a short periiod of time (3 months). I already got unemployment benefits for more than 18 months which run out end of April 2011. Social aid is not an insurance benefit. I hold a German passport.
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Old 30.11.2011, 01:37
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

From other threads you can see that being dependant on Swiss welfare (Not unemployment pay) is putting your B permit at risk of not being renewed.
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  #5  
Old 30.11.2011, 01:41
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

You won't lose it, but it won't get renewed, unfortunately. I have a friend (french) in the process now of losing his.
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Old 30.11.2011, 06:24
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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You won't lose it, but it won't get renewed, unfortunately. I have a friend (french) in the process now of losing his.
Thanks, may I ask you what the process of losing is? Does your friend has to prove an income before the permit runs out for example? If so, within what time frame? Your friend could set up a limited partnership (GmbH) and employ herself as a Managing Director (Geschäftsführer) so that she can prove an employment. Don't know if this will be accepted though but know this has been accepted when someone entered the country at the very first time two years before. He was given a EU B-permit for five years. It would be best to set up the company and abandon social welfare just before the permit runs out. May be one/two month before but you still have to support yourself, or does it help any to be married to a swiss national?

Last edited by Sahasrara; 30.11.2011 at 06:39.
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Old 30.11.2011, 10:30
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

I suspect that a German with a 5 year B permit will renew as a C with no employment questions. They do make other enquiries, so I can't be sure.
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Old 30.11.2011, 16:59
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

Just found this:
http://www.google.ch/url?sa=t&rct=j&...JAC7ng&cad=rja
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  #9  
Old 04.01.2012, 22:35
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

if an EU national is receiving unemployment benefit, is on a B permit and is in Switzerland for 5 years, will his B permit be changed for a C permit? or will he receive another B permit? or just be allowed to stay until his welfare entitlement runs out?
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  #10  
Old 04.01.2012, 23:33
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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if an EU national is receiving unemployment benefit, is on a B permit and is in Switzerland for 5 years, will his B permit be changed for a C permit? or will he receive another B permit? or just be allowed to stay until his welfare entitlement runs out?
I have a (French) friend whose B expired and was up for his C, and his C wasn't given due to long term unemployment and he was not given a new B. This is while he was within his unemployment rights period.


For the OP, I wouldn't worry if you can find a job by 2014. It just turned out that way for my friend because his C came up while he was unemployed.
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Old 04.01.2012, 23:56
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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I have a (French) friend whose B expired and was up for his C, and his C wasn't given due to long term unemployment and he was not given a new B. This is while he was within his unemployment rights period.


For the OP, I wouldn't worry if you can find a job by 2014. It just turned out that way for my friend because his C came up while he was unemployed.
So he was refused a new permit while claiming unemployment benefit? What did he do? Did he have to leave Switzerland? Could he continue to claim benefit until it expired?
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  #12  
Old 05.01.2012, 00:04
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

I am not writing the following as a suggestion, merely as information.

I'm have an EU B permit, am unemployed and on social welfare. Not unemployment benefits, but RI, as I have a medical certificate (at varying percentages). My social worker (well, one of them - they seem to leave a lot ) said, when asked, that I don't need to worry about my permit renewal (due in 2014) while I am too ill to work. The implication being that if a person is deemed too ill to work, they are also too ill to leave the country. I also know of a friend of a friend (non EU) whose permit ran out while she was unwell (obviously I'm not talking a cold or flu here), and she did not have to leave until she was 'better' - as in 'well enough to go back to your home country'.

Again, I'm not suggesting that you get yourself signed off, but it does indicate that there is a certain amount of flexibility in some cases.

Another interesting thing I have noticed is that no-one has given me any indication about how many hours I will have to work in order to get my permit renewed... even when I was told to look for jobs at 20%, no-one said 'Of course you'd have to increase your hours before 2014.'

In fact, I have noticed an incredible lack of 'pushing' from social services, and the authorities in general. The only people who have ever said to me 'You must get better and get a job if you want to stay in this country' have been... and this does make me laugh (now, although it didn't at the time) the psychiatric nursing staff when I was hospitalised and so ill it was a struggle to get out of bed. One lady woke me up every morning with that line! Not that I'm running them down. They were great. Just some of them had an odd idea of what would encourage me to get up and about again. (At the time 'breakfast' was a challenge so 'job' was... well, a long way off.)

In terms of permit renewal, all the official information I've been able to find is this quote:

Quote:
First-time renewal of the permit can be limited to one year, however, if the holder has been involuntarily unemployed for more than twelve consecutive months.
Found here.

Hope that helps - one thing it does seem to answer is your original question, now I come to think of it. The fact you've been involuntarily unemployed for over a year may be putting your renewal at risk. So I wouldn't worry about claiming benefits... it doesn't seem that it will make a difference, if you see what I mean.

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Hello

I'm an EU B-Permit Holder (valid until 2014). My unemployment benefits have run out a couple of months ago, and there is still no job in sight. Can I claim dole money without putting my permit at risk?

Thanks in advance for any good advise.

Sahasrara

Last edited by Vlh22; 05.01.2012 at 00:05. Reason: Added quote to make it clear what the 'original question' was.
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  #13  
Old 05.01.2012, 00:42
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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So he was refused a new permit while claiming unemployment benefit? What did he do? Did he have to leave Switzerland? Could he continue to claim benefit until it expired?
he is appealing the decision in the courts, so he was given a stay until the appeals process is finished.
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  #14  
Old 24.04.2012, 13:07
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

[QUOTE=Vlh22;1448693]
In fact, I have noticed an incredible lack of 'pushing' from social services, and the authorities in general.

Hope that helps - one thing it does seem to answer is your original question, now I come to think of it. The fact you've been involuntarily unemployed for over a year may be putting your renewal at risk. So I wouldn't worry about claiming benefits... it doesn't seem that it will make a difference, if you see what I mean.[/QUOTE]

I also noticed a lack of 'pushing' from the authorities in the Canton of Vaud until I moved to Valais in January 2012. I have been in receipt of RI in Valais since the beginning of March 2012, which is less than two months. For the first month I received...CHF200 because my savings exceeded the maximum CHF on my account required by social institutions. Nonethless, after 1.5 month I already received a letter from the department of immigration in Valais, where they asked me about my future plans in Switzerland, job search, why I lost a job, etc. So, maybe Vaud is more liberal than Valais in this matter.
After that letter I felt targeted, in my opinion this is a sheer example of bureaucratical burden against a foreigner who has temporary problems. I barely touched a social help and the cantonal authorities have already started chasing me. I have been looking intensively for work since the loss of employment. I also found some private clients and from the beginning of May I am planning to be self-employed. I am also going to cancel a RI because I panic any time I see letters from my Canton or from my town hall. I am frugal and I will manage for few months. From my experience, a social help in Switzerland can be a burden. They are chasing me for CHF200 paid in March. Laughing.
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Old 24.04.2012, 21:15
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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From my experience, a social help in Switzerland can be a burden.
Yes it is. And in most cases you or your family are required to pay it back!
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  #16  
Old 24.04.2012, 21:36
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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Yes it is. And in most cases you or your family are required to pay it back!
Can you give any source or link to that (in French or in English)?
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Old 24.04.2012, 21:38
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

http://www.beobachter.ch/geld-sicher...-was-es-wolle/

http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/...rstattung.html

http://www.skos.ch/de/?page=richtlin...chtsgrundlagen

Search the forum for SKOS for related threads

http://www.zh-sozialkonferenz.ch/doc...mit_layout.pdf

http://www.admin.ch/ch/e/rs/101/index.html#id-ni3-ni4

Wallis:

Quote:
Article 18 Refund of Social Assistance
1 The refund procedure will be agreed upon between the municipality and the welfare recipient. If you do not agree is, the Department for Social Welfare should be consulted.
2 If nevertheless concluded no amicable settlement, the municipality's claim before the competent civil court claims.
3 The refunded amounts are in accordance with applicable at the promise of support of distribution between the communities and the Canton split.
Source in DE

http://www.vs.ch/Navig/navig.asp?Men...00&Language=fr
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Last edited by jrspet; 24.04.2012 at 22:28.
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  #18  
Old 24.04.2012, 22:29
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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Can you give any source or link to that (in French or in English)?
Yep, when and if you start earning, win the Lottery or comes into any inheritance- it has to be paid back- as my brother found to his discomfiture. As soon as he got the money, it was taken away from him.
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Old 24.04.2012, 22:55
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

Thanks for links, although I don't speak German.

I think that it depends on someone's situation: a win in a lottery or inheritance may be a significant reason to rembourse previous payments from social welfare. If it's a very significant improvement in a finantial stability and a quality of life, that yes, a recipient of RI may be asked to repay. But if somebody strives to get back on their own feet and starts making modest income, let's say 1000-2000 CHF net per month, I don't think that the cantonal authorities would grab on his money, perhaps that would be a process extended in time.
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Old 24.04.2012, 23:03
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Re: Social welfare benefit ( EU citizen ) after unemployment benefits

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Thanks for links, although I don't speak German.

I think that it depends on someone's situation: a win in a lottery or inheritance may be a significant reason to rembourse previous payments from social welfare. If it's a very significant improvement in a finantial stability and a quality of life, that yes, a recipient of RI may be asked to repay. But if somebody strives to get back on their own feet and starts making modest income, let's say 1000-2000 CHF net per month, I don't think that the cantonal authorities would grab on his money, perhaps that would be a process extended in time.
Use Google Chrome browser or Google Translate to understand. In Sozialhilfegesetz ( law ), there is an income free allowance ( EFB Einkommensfreibetrag ), normally no more than CHF800 a month, typically CHF600 a month. More than this, it is deducted from your social welfare allowance.
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