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  #61  
Old 24.05.2012, 08:14
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Re: Should I get married?

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A reason? Why do you have to give any reason? What is wrong with a straight "No."
Because sometimes, in some culture, things are not that simple. It can be hierarchy, positions and age of people that put them in a position of respect. This position of respect means a lot of things that may not make sense to you and others who never been in these cultures but makes it difficult for those in to just walk away and say no.

And if one say no, it puts the entire family back home in a difficult situation again, for many reasons.

So a strong reason is needed to take away pressure on Phil and his family, without them looking bad.
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  #62  
Old 24.05.2012, 08:25
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Re: Should I get married?

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You know this woman is going to take 1/2 of at least some of your stuff right? Like your pension fund while you are married.
Not if you have a separation of assets, then it is NOT split (unless you die).

Also, you do not have to live together, my wife and I had two separate apartments for nearly two years, as it was more convenient and cheaper (plus it was cool to have one in downtown Zurich for the weekends, and one outside in the country near my work).

Still, this is a bad idea, but I know people who have done it (and it was NOT a good idea).

Tom
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  #63  
Old 24.05.2012, 09:15
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Re: Should I get married? ( to assist a non-EU for a B permit )

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Did you actually speak with her or only with her family? Maybe she herself is as opposed to the idea as you are?...
i only spoke to my dad who relayed the request. i was wondering whether it was just a scam to get me married off...
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  #64  
Old 24.05.2012, 09:18
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Re: Should I get married?

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Because sometimes, in some culture, things are not that simple. It can be hierarchy, positions and age of people that put them in a position of respect. This position of respect means a lot of things that may not make sense to you and others who never been in these cultures but makes it difficult for those in to just walk away and say no.

And if one say no, it puts the entire family back home in a difficult situation again, for many reasons.

So a strong reason is needed to take away pressure on Phil and his family, without them looking bad.
that's exactly right. if i say 'no, because i don't feel like it' or 'no, because it is illegal' then this will cause severe offence. they will think, 'why will he not do this simple thing for me/does he not have any respect for us/etc. etc.'
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  #65  
Old 24.05.2012, 09:31
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Re: Should I get married?

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that's exactly right. if i say 'no, because i don't feel like it' or 'no, because it is illegal' then this will cause severe offence. they will think, 'why will he not do this simple thing for me/does he not have any respect for us/etc. etc.'
What happens if you actually use the "can't do this because it will jeopardize my current relationship" excuse? Will your parents accept this as a valid reason to not follow through, especially since the concept of non-respectfulness in this circumstance probably extends to them as well?

Assuming you are not currently in a relationship, will you possibly have to put together some sort of a sham relationship to make your excuse acceptable to your parents? If so, how long will you need to continue that "relationship" in terms of discussing it with your parents?

It sounds like a very complicated situation; I am sorry that you are being faced with it.
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  #66  
Old 24.05.2012, 09:49
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Re: Should I get married?

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If they find out, you'll lose your permit.
how will anyone ever find out??

It's only 8,000 or so EFers who know what Phil is up to
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  #67  
Old 24.05.2012, 10:12
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Re: Should I get married?

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What happens if you actually use the "can't do this because it will jeopardize my current relationship" excuse? Will your parents accept this as a valid reason to not follow through, especially since the concept of non-respectfulness in this circumstance probably extends to them as well?

Assuming you are not currently in a relationship, will you possibly have to put together some sort of a sham relationship to make your excuse acceptable to your parents? If so, how long will you need to continue that "relationship" in terms of discussing it with your parents?

It sounds like a very complicated situation; I am sorry that you are being faced with it.
that's the beauty of the 'about to be married line' there's no need to debate or argue about legality, years of marriage etc. it's like the ultimate trump card - it is immediately understandable and ends the matter straight away.
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Old 24.05.2012, 10:34
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Re: Should I get married? ( to assist a non-EU for a B permit )

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Funny situation, a friend
You've got friends?
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  #69  
Old 24.05.2012, 10:46
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Re: Should I get married?

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that's the beauty of the 'about to be married line' there's no need to debate or argue about legality, years of marriage etc. it's like the ultimate trump card - it is immediately understandable and ends the matter straight away.
It would seem that this would easily put the matter to rest. But you don't actually have a girlfriend, correct?

If that is the case, what I am asking is whether you will have to act like you have one to appease your own parents if they do not agree that lying is appropriate or acceptable in this case in order to avoid marrying the family friend. So I guess I am asking if you will have to deceive both your family friends and your parents, or just the friends.
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Old 24.05.2012, 10:55
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Re: Should I get married? ( to assist a non-EU for a B permit )

We've progressed from fake wife to fake girlfriend. Ahh, the joys of singledom
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  #71  
Old 24.05.2012, 10:58
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Re: Should I get married? ( to assist a non-EU for a B permit )

Desperate bachelors.... the new EF mini-series.

Last edited by olygirl; 24.05.2012 at 11:03. Reason: pix too provocative
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  #72  
Old 24.05.2012, 18:44
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Re: Should I get married?

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Not if you have a separation of assets, then it is NOT split (unless you die).

Also, you do not have to live together, my wife and I had two separate apartments for nearly two years, as it was more convenient and cheaper (plus it was cool to have one in downtown Zurich for the weekends, and one outside in the country near my work).

Still, this is a bad idea, but I know people who have done it (and it was NOT a good idea).

Tom
I understood that the assets were all divided at will but that the second pillar was a mandatory 50 50 split of accrued. I guess I misunderstood the detail, but my main point still remains that if his wfe wanted to go there, she could fight for money legally.

As I said in the original post, EU citizens and their spouses do not have to live together like Swiss and foreign have to by law. Swiss couples get around this by having everyone registered at one address but that doesn't always work. However, if there are other things that look bad, it tips the balance when permit renewal comes, I have seen it in my entourage and had to deal with it personally.
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  #73  
Old 24.05.2012, 18:46
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Re: Should I get married?

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that's exactly right. if i say 'no, because i don't feel like it' or 'no, because it is illegal' then this will cause severe offence. they will think, 'why will he not do this simple thing for me/does he not have any respect for us/etc. etc.'
I would drive the point home of "I will lose my permit and my livelihood if I do this and both of us would be screwed" not "this is illegal". Just me tho. Been there with the inlaws of a random culture.
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  #74  
Old 25.05.2012, 08:33
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Re: Should I get married?

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As I said in the original post, EU citizens and their spouses do not have to live together like Swiss and foreign have to by law
You do NOT have to live together by law!

As I said, my (Swiss) wife and I did not live together (officially, we did in reality) for two years, and I was a US citizen at the time.

She was registered as living in Zurich City, and me outside of town, as neither of our apartments was officially large enough for two people, and we didn't want to change as our combined rent was about CHF 500/month!

Tom
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Old 25.05.2012, 18:42
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Re: Should I get married? ( to assist a non-EU for a B permit )

Phil, you might be interested in this cautionary tale headline article from Thursday's Obersee Nachrichten (beacon of journalistic excellence that it is... ), 'Wenn die Scheinehe kriselt' :

http://v2.suedostschweiz.ch/epaper/p..._01_2012-05-24

And the story continues on page 7:
http://v2.suedostschweiz.ch/epaper/p..._03_2012-05-24


In a nutshell: It all went pear-shaped, the gentleman divorced the lady, admitting it was a Scheinehe. The lady objected to the divorce - and the Sozialamt sided with her, fake marriage or not. He had to turn over the Wohnung and pay CHF 3500 per month to the lady and her daughter (unclear from the article whose child it is...)



(Oh, how I love the local rag - All The Gossip News That's Fit To Print.)
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  #76  
Old 25.05.2012, 19:31
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Re: Should I get married?

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You do NOT have to live together by law!

As I said, my (Swiss) wife and I did not live together (officially, we did in reality) for two years, and I was a US citizen at the time.

She was registered as living in Zurich City, and me outside of town, as neither of our apartments was officially large enough for two people, and we didn't want to change as our combined rent was about CHF 500/month!

Tom
Or maybe you were lucky? Art 42 of the LEtR says otherwise

http://www.admin.ch/ch/f/rs/142_20/a42.html

« Le conjoint d’un ressortissant suisse ainsi que ses enfants célibataires de moins de 18 ans ont droit à l’octroi d’une autorisation de séjour et à la prolongation de sa durée de validité à condition de vivre en ménage commun avec lui. »

However, as point 6.14 of this document notes, EU nationals do not necessarily have to live with their Swiss spouses to keep their permit because they have the right in principle to one anyway.

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/dam/data/migration/rechtsgrundlagen/weisungen_und_kreisschreiben/weisungen_auslaenderbereich/familiennachzug/6-familiennachzug-f.pdf



As is usually the case on English Forum, for every law there is an exception or something that slips through the cracks. But because it worked for you doesn't mean it will work for someone else. That is all I am trying to say.
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  #77  
Old 25.05.2012, 20:11
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Re: Should I get married?

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that's exactly right. if i say 'no, because i don't feel like it' or 'no, because it is illegal' then this will cause severe offence. they will think, 'why will he not do this simple thing for me/does he not have any respect for us/etc. etc.'
Perhaps it is time to be proactive in meeting someone special? Joining a dating agency could be one option to generate some noise/throw family off for a while.
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  #78  
Old 25.05.2012, 20:18
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Re: Should I get married?

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Because sometimes, in some culture, things are not that simple. It can be hierarchy, positions and age of people that put them in a position of respect. This position of respect means a lot of things that may not make sense to you and others who never been in these cultures but makes it difficult for those in to just walk away and say no.

And if one say no, it puts the entire family back home in a difficult situation again, for many reasons.

So a strong reason is needed to take away pressure on Phil and his family, without them looking bad.
Because of the wording of the OP, I was (and still am) presuming that the request has come from the same culture as members of my family. I stick by my "say no, if that is what you want to say."

Last edited by biff; 29.05.2012 at 23:31. Reason: sp
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Old 25.05.2012, 21:04
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Re: Should I get married?

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exactly. simply being illegal wouldn't really be a good reason for them and then i will be left it a bit of an awkward position, so i am trying to find an 'acceptable' reason.
Why don't you tell them that she is too ugly?
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  #80  
Old 25.05.2012, 21:07
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Re: Should I get married?

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Why don't you tell them that she is too ugly?
Because they don't care if he likes her or not, it is just for the paper. It is a sham marriagenot an arranged one.
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