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Old 24.05.2012, 21:21
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French vs. Swiss citizenship for a non-EU

Hello everyone! I am a newcomer and this is going to be my very first post.

First off, I’d like to say this is an amazing forum with lots of amazing people who are willing and able to help. That’s what prompted me to register, really. I have been reading extensively historical threads in the past two days but did not get an answer to my question.

I am a non-EU citizen and I am currently working for a UN agency in the field. Soon I will move to the Geneva Headquarters on an indefinite contract. I plan to make Geneva my permanent home and even change my nationality. If I understand correctly, to get a Swiss passport, I will have to live in Switzerland for 12 years; in contrast, to get a French passport, I will only have to live in France (Ferney-Voltaire, for instance) for 5 years. I would prefer to have the French passport since it is much faster to get.

1) The thing is, since I work for the UN, I am not going to get my income from France and I will not pay tax to the French government either. Does this automatically disqualify me as a candidate for French citizenship?
2) If the answer to question 1) is yes, then the only option for me seems to be, live in Switzerland for 12 years and apply for a Swiss passport. Does that mean I cannot live in neighboring France during these 12 years?
3) As a holder of the “legitimation card”, am I allowed to buy property in France or Switzerland before I get citizenship from either country? Again, if I want to apply for a Swiss passport, I will have to buy a property within Switzerland, right?

Any input is welcome. I thank you in advance.
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Old 24.05.2012, 22:12
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Re: French vs. Swiss citizenship for a non-EU

I think you need to be married to a French citizen for 5 years to be eligible for French nationality. If you just live there after 5 years you would get something like C permit here (in Italy it's called card for stay) but it's not really 5 years, usually longer. And for the citizenship you have another few years after that...I think this is how it works all around EU...
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Old 25.05.2012, 03:20
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Re: French vs. Swiss citizenship for a non-EU

If you are in Switzerland on a UN legitimation card and permit, then you do not pay the same taxes the rest of of pay. I understand that Geneva doesn't hold this as a obstacle to naturalization but Vaud does. But in neither case does the fact that you have put in your 12 years means you get it free and clear.

It is 5 years for the French passport, or four years if you are married to a French but living in Switzerland, and less (three?) if you are married to a French living in France. However, one of the conditions for applying for French nationality without it being through marriage is that your center of interests be in France (professional, personal, etc). UN employees may not automatically be assumed to have interests based in France.

What I am trying to say is that I am not entirely sure that just putting in your time while being on a legitimation card is enough in either France or Switzerland, because of the tax issues in CH and because the French could argue that your center of professional interests is not in France. It could happen but it could not.

All I can say is good luck, I'm fighting for my French passport myself as my Swiss one won't come down (if I am lucky) until 2017, because I didn't marry well like Michele Bachmann
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Old 26.05.2012, 19:07
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Re: French vs. Swiss citizenship for a non-EU

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I think you need to be married to a French citizen for 5 years to be eligible for French nationality. If you just live there after 5 years you would get something like C permit here (in Italy it's called card for stay) but it's not really 5 years, usually longer. And for the citizenship you have another few years after that...I think this is how it works all around EU...
Thanks for your comment. This is what I get from Wikipedia:

A person aged 18 or above may apply for French citizenship by naturalisation after five years' habitual and continuous residence in France (if married and with children, then the applicant must be living in France with his/her family).[4] In addition, it is required that the applicant has his/her primary source of income in France during the five year period. Those applying who are not European Union, European Economic Area or Swiss nationals are required to be in possession of a "titre de séjour" (a residence permit).

It seems a non-EU citizen can apply for French citizenship after 5 years without having to marry a French citizen. However, there are a number of conditions attached to it. For instance, the 5 years of residence must be habitual and continuous and the main source of income must come from France. I obviously don't meet this latter requirement.
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Old 26.05.2012, 19:10
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Re: French vs. Swiss citizenship for a non-EU

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If you are in Switzerland on a UN legitimation card and permit, then you do not pay the same taxes the rest of of pay. I understand that Geneva doesn't hold this as a obstacle to naturalization but Vaud does. But in neither case does the fact that you have put in your 12 years means you get it free and clear.

It is 5 years for the French passport, or four years if you are married to a French but living in Switzerland, and less (three?) if you are married to a French living in France. However, one of the conditions for applying for French nationality without it being through marriage is that your center of interests be in France (professional, personal, etc). UN employees may not automatically be assumed to have interests based in France.

What I am trying to say is that I am not entirely sure that just putting in your time while being on a legitimation card is enough in either France or Switzerland, because of the tax issues in CH and because the French could argue that your center of professional interests is not in France. It could happen but it could not.

All I can say is good luck, I'm fighting for my French passport myself as my Swiss one won't come down (if I am lucky) until 2017, because I didn't marry well like Michele Bachmann
Thank you very much for your comment. I have read some more materials these days and you are absolutely right in saying that my center of professional interest is not in France, which may disqualify me for French citizenship. It looks I will have to live in Geneva then. But good luck with your application for French citizenship!
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Old 27.05.2012, 11:54
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Re: French vs. Swiss citizenship for a non-EU

Your new opportunity sounds exciting. I would advise you to ask your employer some of these questions. And take things step by step. Having recently become Swiss myself, trust me 12 years is a long time and a lot of things can and will happen between now and 2024! Eligibility requirements for citizenship could change (e.g. become easier or more difficult, you could be transferred to the field etc)

I don't know for sure but I doubt it would be possible for you to buy property for the first 5 years as you are non EU. You don't have to be a citizen to buy property.

But first and foremost make sure you understand what type of work permit you will have and what the restrictions are. Back when I worked for the UN years ago, it seemed like UN granted work permits were not treated the same as other permits granted by Swiss companies.

So do your homework first. And give yourself time to understand how things work.

And if you have aspirations of becoming Swiss, living across the border in France is a no-go! You have to prove residence in Switzerland.

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...gehoerige.html
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Old 31.05.2012, 02:33
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Re: French vs. Swiss citizenship for a non-EU

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Your new opportunity sounds exciting. I would advise you to ask your employer some of these questions. And take things step by step. Having recently become Swiss myself, trust me 12 years is a long time and a lot of things can and will happen between now and 2024! Eligibility requirements for citizenship could change (e.g. become easier or more difficult, you could be transferred to the field etc)

I don't know for sure but I doubt it would be possible for you to buy property for the first 5 years as you are non EU. You don't have to be a citizen to buy property.

But first and foremost make sure you understand what type of work permit you will have and what the restrictions are. Back when I worked for the UN years ago, it seemed like UN granted work permits were not treated the same as other permits granted by Swiss companies.

So do your homework first. And give yourself time to understand how things work.

And if you have aspirations of becoming Swiss, living across the border in France is a no-go! You have to prove residence in Switzerland.

http://www.bfm.admin.ch/content/bfm/...gehoerige.html
Thanks for your thoughtful reply. I will certainly have to do more research. As you said, 12 years is a long time and many things may change. I will try to find a place to stay in Geneva first. As for property and citizenship, I will have to think about them when I get settled.
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