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  #21  
Old 29.01.2015, 15:47
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

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...I think that as long as i don't stay more than 3 months (legally 6 month) out of the USA my naturalization should be fine.

Anyone know how long is the wait time after submitting the USA marriage certificate & paper work to the consult of CH in US ? How long until i can set foot in Switzerland?
Hmm, this starts to get more complicated. If you want to get a permit to live here it means you plan to make Switzerland your center of life. That doesn't mix well with maintaining the U.S. as your center of life for naturalization purposes. Trying to do both could mean you wind up paying taxes and health insurance in both countries. Ouch.

Perhaps at this point, go ahead and get married and register the marriage, but don't apply for a permit since you don't plan to move here. Depending on your nationality you can come 90 days out of any 180 as a tourist without needing any visa.

How far along is your naturalization paperwork in the U.S.?
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  #22  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:00
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

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I think that as long as i don't stay more than 3 months (legally 6 month) out of the USA my naturalization should be fine.
It might not become an issue at all, but tread carefully. If it emerges that you have moved abroad (and particularly if you have obtained a foreign resident permit) before becoming a US citizen, a USCIS officer who wants to interpret the rules very strictly could conclude that not only have you not met the naturalization requirement of maintaining your "primary, actual dwelling place" in the United States up to the time of your swearing in but also that, in relocating to Switzerland with the intent of making it your home, you have abandoned your US Lawful Permanent Resident status.

On the other hand, particularly if you haven't been gone long, he/she might just shrug his shoulders at the recent (extended) travel to Switzerland reported in your naturalization paperwork. It's impossible to know, but just in case, I would maintain documentation consistent with residency in the US and a plausible narrative about the temporary nature of your time overseas up until you have the Certificate of Naturalization in your hands. (And to be clear, I'm not suggesting that that "plausible narrative" should be dishonest; rather, it should emphasize real, ongoing connections to the United States.)
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  #23  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:03
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Hey 3Wishes, my naturalization process is about 3 weeks far. My plan is to hopefully move to Switzerland like in two to three months. And after 2 month or so when they call me in to be sworn fly back and do so. But i'm planing on living in Switzerland permanently.

Jhm3, i agree with you 100% great point, I have to be very cautions and keep in hand as much documentation and plausible information as i can. I will probably consult a layer for this. Just in case.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 29.01.2015 at 16:47. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #24  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:23
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

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Hey 3Wishes, my naturalization process is about 3 weeks far. My plan is to hopefully move to Switzerland like in two to three months. And after 2 month or so when they call me in to be sworn fly back and do so. But i'm planing on living in Switzerland permanently.
You'll be lucky. First you have to get married, then your wife has to make the application for you to join her here. You've got to get your birth certificate so that's going to take a while from the sounds of it and you will need it for the application. Then the Swiss authorities have to look at all the paperwork before they grant the permit.
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  #25  
Old 29.01.2015, 16:28
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

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Hey 3Wishes, my naturalization process is about 3 weeks far. My plan is to hopefully move to Switzerland like in two to three months. And after 2 month or so when they call me in to be sworn fly back and do so. But i'm planing on living in Switzerland permanently.
Is it three weeks since you sent in the application, or three weeks since you had the interview? As you know, you report foreign travel on the application form, but then you're asked about time you have spent abroad since sending in the application both at the interview and at the oath ceremony itself, so there are potentially a couple of points at which questions about your place of residence might (or might not!) arise.

For some lucky people on some days at some USCIS district offices, oath ceremonies might be available on the same day as a successful interview -- which would certainly be very helpful in your case! -- but elsewhere and at other times there might be several weeks or even several months between the interview and the oath.

Hopefully you will be mostly, if not entirely through the process by the time you leave. Good luck!
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Old 29.01.2015, 17:22
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

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But is the OP a US citizen? He says he is currently a US resident, originally from South America. If he's not a US citizen or a Lawful Permanent Resident (Green Card holder), getting married in the US shouldn't give rise to any particular tax issues.

I'm pretty sure that Swiss citizenship law has been revised over the years so that there is no longer any possibility of a Swiss woman losing her nationality by marrying a foreign husband (as would have happened in the past), whether or not she makes her wishes known to the consulate ... but she would need to report the marriage to the consulate anyway so that her Swiss civil status records can be updated.
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Well, it was certainly the case in 1988.

Personally, I'd check.

Tom
For the record: The historical state of Swiss nationality law is set out in the Nationality Manual (downloadable in all Swiss languages, the French version is at https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/fr/home...rgerrecht.html with links on top line to other languages)

As early as 1957 certain Swiss women who had lost Swiss nationality could recover it. By 1991, responding rather belatedly to the 1979 UN Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination Against Women, most such discrimination was abolished, though arguably not (yet) with total effect regarding prior multigenerational discrimination. See http://www.persee.fr/web/revues/home..._num_43_3_2291 (Michel Hotellier) and the texts of historical revisions at https://www.bfm.admin.ch/dam/data/bf...ueg-anh1-f.pdf (French version).

Article 9.1 ("La femme suisse perd la nationalité suisse en épousant un étranger, si elle acquiert la nationalité de son mari par le mariage ou l'a déjà et ne déclare pas lors de la publication ou de la célébration du mariage vouloir conserver la nationalité suisse.") was abrogated by LN du 23 mars 1990 (RO 1991 1034).

Many Swiss women retained their nationality even earlier (in the USA following the Cable Act of 1922) because automatic naturalisation of women upon marriage was progressively abolished; the trap for the unwary was applying for naturalisation without first consulting the relevant Swiss consulate. (Even today this issue is faced by German citizens, although as to those naturalised in the USA there is a perfect defense in the US estate tax discrimination against foreign spouses (the "QDOT" rules) -- that defense might perhaps have been of use to some Swiss brides as well in the past.)

There are several scholarly treatises on this subject. For a list, go to https://jus.swissbib.ch/ and query on <perte de la nationalité suisse> and/or (somewhat less satisfactorily) <Verlust des Schweizer Bürgerrechts>

As for marriage in the USA: It's about the easiest jurisdiction for marriage, with no query as to immigration status and generally self-certification as to civil status. Nevada is famous for quickie marriages; many or most states have a waiting period: thus, 72 hours in Texas which is why many spontaneous marriages take place instead in Texarkana, Arkansas, across the street from Texas. But watch out: at least one couple married on the Arkansas side (Miller County) with a license issued by the Bowie County, Texas clerk: http://uniset.ca/other/cs6/295SW2d330.html

Apparently the marriage certification document (not the marriage, only the date of the paper certification) has to be less than six months old when presented to the Swiss consular officer. (That's only a minor nuisance most times but I had a client who entered into a Jewish marriage in England, and synagogue marriage books aren't filed with the borough clerk until they are filled up -- which can take years, or decades in the case of Chelsea, London.)

American tax laws regarding expatriates and loss of citizenship/green-card status or long-term residence are draconian. Residents of Switzerland are likely to face issues more serious than finding a willing banker: PFIC, FBAR, and rules relating to trusts, foreign corporations, investments, and income (and for the wealthy, gift and estate) taxation. Long-term residents and green-card holders should seek tax advice when leaving the USA for good. (Apparently those nasty tax rules even apply to illegal aliens and deportees, if they have substantial assets.)

The OP seems to be going the other way, gaining US citizenship. I wonder how far the Surinder Singh strategy would work for him (immediate EEA residence visa in a neighbouring EU country provided the Swiss spouse seeks work there; with usual Schengen rules for brief visits to Switzerland. And after six months non-discretionary rights to move to Switzerland permanently. The strategy works for the UK and other EU countries. https://www.freemovement.org.uk/suri...gration-route/ ) But see this thread: Non EU wife entering on Schengen visa refused permit by Bern commune. Help needed pls

Last edited by Potrzebie; 29.01.2015 at 17:40.
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  #27  
Old 29.01.2015, 21:22
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

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Marrying in the US should be quicker so I'd go for that option if you can. You would need a new birth certificate anyway if you wanted to marry here so it really doesn't matter on that side of things.
Too be frank I don't think it makes much difference. The thing that takes time when getting married in Switzerland is verifying the documents of the foreign spouse.

These are exactly the same documents that will need to be verified for a D-Visa - so basically same time needed but with a D-Visa you have to interact more with the Migrationamt.

I might be tempted to send the documents to the Zivilstandsamt and once they are verified, fly down and get married on a tourist visa and apply the next day for the B permit.
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  #28  
Old 14.03.2015, 15:24
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

Greetings everyone,

We have decided to get married in th US and then move to Switzerland right after. But still having a Little bit of a hiccup with my birth certificate. I have to get it apostilled and my country of citizenship will do it in around 3 month from now !!!! My uncle which is doing this paper work for me also tells me that he can have it in one day if I bring a letter from the Swiss consulate/embassy or any educational institution that says that my apostilled certificate is needed before the end of March.

Not sure if the consulate of Switzerland would do something like that... What are my option here my friends?
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  #29  
Old 14.03.2015, 15:33
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

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Greetings everyone,

We have decided to get married in th US and then move to Switzerland right after. But still having a Little bit of a hiccup with my birth certificate. I have to get it apostilled and my country of citizenship will do it in around 3 month from now !!!! My uncle which is doing this paper work for me also tells me that he can have it in one day if I bring a letter from the Swiss consulate/embassy or any educational institution that says that my apostilled certificate is needed before the end of March.

Not sure if the consulate of Switzerland would do something like that... What are my option here my friends?
It's not an embassy or educational institution but...one option is to get friendly with the local county clerk in the USA that will issue your marriage license. Ask them very, very nicely if they will write a letter on letterhead stating you need the certificate by the end of March in order to get married. They may well do it for free.
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  #30  
Old 14.03.2015, 15:57
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

Hey 3wishes, that's a good idea but the apostille will be made out to the Swiss government. So that's why I think that it should be a Swiss institution that creates the document. But your idea might work actually. Hmmmm. I'm thinking ..
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  #31  
Old 18.03.2015, 22:23
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Re: Marriage in the USA or Switzerland?

Well, I know we had to hand in tons of paper work for our marriage in Germany; my hubby us U.S. Citizen; but with the translations and an international marriage certificate, it made things a whole lot easier here in Switzerland, that's for sure! But he didn't have to go through a naturalization process...
But I remember, I was just about to give up and go to Vegas as well, because ut took so loooooong! But I read afterwards, that the German government would have asked for all the same paper work, if not even more, to register it then afterwards, so not sure - Swiss paper work is not that much different from the German one... So consider this carefully!
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