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  #41  
Old 03.02.2015, 18:53
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

Hey Hassan -

I really feel for you, I do. Ppl do not always understand the desperation that comes from having very little. I understand there is not a great deal waiting for you in Italy or Pakistan. However, CH as many ppl have said is an extremely difficult place to get a work permit in, even for ppl that seem to have a degree, etc. Almost any other country in the world would be easier to get a work permit in.

Your best bets are to contact agencies that specialize in cases like yours (like the sans papiers link someone posted earlier in this thread) or get married.

Don't lose hope! Just make a list of those agencies and drop by their offices or call them 2morrow. Let us know how you get on.
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  #42  
Old 03.02.2015, 18:53
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@ Samaire13 dear thank you for advice, we are not doing shame marriage, we love each other and wants us together, dear the truth is i have Political Asylum Seeker status in Italy,( I am allowed to anywhere just for 3 months and not to work), I can't go back to Pakistan because I will be killed there, and my status have rights to apply for nationality after 5 years.

@ AroundTown; dear thanks for feelings and understanding me, honestly i really have a hard time now, i hope that i would not get crazy because of no way to settle somewhere, I got very old because of so much thinking, OH God last day I searched job from 08:00 to 23:00 and no job, just I got sad and...
whatever thanks for writing back

Last edited by 3Wishes; 03.02.2015 at 19:00. Reason: merging successive posts, fixing quote problems
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  #43  
Old 03.02.2015, 19:07
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

She needs to apply at her gemeinde admin office. You need to go back to Italy so you can get the visa you need, you can't get it while you're in Switzerland. They'll be able to tell her what she/you needs to do to apply for the concubine permit.

Understand that this is only a residence permit and won't allow you to work here. Whether you can get that added later if you find a job because your girlfriend is an EU national I don't know, she would need to ask at the gemeinde office. EU married dependents have the right to work here, but I don't know if the same applies to the concubine permit.
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  #44  
Old 03.02.2015, 19:10
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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@ Samaire13 dear thank you for advice, we are not doing shame marriage, we love each other and wants us together, dear the truth is i have Political Asylum Seeker status in Italy,( I am allowed to anywhere just for 3 months and not to work), I can't go back to Pakistan because I will be killed there, and my status have rights to apply for nationality after 5 years.
It may be that you love each other, but the authorities will very likely see it differently, if an illegal immigrant is getting married to a German national based in Switzerland.

And Hassan, again, we understand where you come from and that your status is legal in Italy, but it is NOT in Switzerland!! I get the feeling you're not quite understanding what that means and what consequences it may have.

Last edited by Samaire13; 03.02.2015 at 19:23.
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  #45  
Old 03.02.2015, 19:31
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@Samaire13 Dear thank you, I understand everything what you said i really appreciated, you are such good heart person, it means she have to apply a sponsorship for me in Italy????

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She needs to apply at her gemeinde admin office. You need to go back to Italy so you can get the visa you need, you can't get it while you're in Switzerland. They'll be able to tell her what she/you needs to do to apply for the concubine permit.

Understand that this is only a residence permit and won't allow you to work here. Whether you can get that added later if you find a job because your girlfriend is an EU national I don't know, she would need to ask at the gemeinde office. EU married dependents have the right to work here, but I don't know if the same applies to the concubine permit.
thanks dear, it means that i have to go back and she have to apply there in italy sponsorship for me???

Last edited by 3Wishes; 03.02.2015 at 20:00. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #46  
Old 03.02.2015, 19:40
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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thanks dear, it means that i have to go back and she have to apply there in italy sponsorship for me???
It means you have to go back to Italy, and she applies here in Switzerland. You can return to Switzerland legally once it's approved. Expect a ton of paperwork.

I have no idea how this would work for you as a person on Italian asylum papers. When you apply for concubine status or marriage here, you generally need copies of things like birth certificates, all issued within the last 6 months and translated/apostilled. Given that you can't go back to Pakistan I don't know how you'd meet that requirement. But talk to the municipal officials. They can tell you exactly what you need and if there are any workarounds.
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  #47  
Old 03.02.2015, 20:28
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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It means you have to go back to Italy, and she applies here in Switzerland. You can return to Switzerland legally once it's approved. Expect a ton of paperwork.

I have no idea how this would work for you as a person on Italian asylum papers. When you apply for concubine status or marriage here, you generally need copies of things like birth certificates, all issued within the last 6 months and translated/apostilled. Given that you can't go back to Pakistan I don't know how you'd meet that requirement. But talk to the municipal officials. They can tell you exactly what you need and if there are any workarounds.
She applies for a concubine permit for you here.
You, in Italy, apply at the nearest Swiss embassy/consulate to where you live in Italy for a Type D visa. You need to stay in Italy until you get approval/refusal of the permit.
The two will be matched up during the application process.
The cantonal migration office will look at the application and do their research. If they approve it, I think the application then goes up to Federal Office in Bern for their research and approval.
IF both approve the permit, then the Type D visa will be issued to you and you'd get it stamped in your passport so you can enter Switzerland long term legally.
Once back here you then go to the gemeinde with your girlfriend to get your permit issued which will take several weeks.

Btw, you'll also needs things like your birth certificate if you decide to marry instead. Try contacting the Pakistani embassy in Italy to see if they can offer any advice on getting the necessary paperwork given your unusual circumstances.
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  #48  
Old 03.02.2015, 22:14
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

Allow me to ask a stupid question, please,


as the situation doesn't seem as desperate as I thought in the beginning of this 3d.


OP, if you have an official Status like the one this site is talking about,
http://www.meltingpot.org/Il-permess...l#.VNEoXJU5C75


and you have a German girlfriend you plan to marry, plus other friends you can rely on,
why don't you simply contact an immigration lawyer or ask Migrationsamt (and due to the fact that in Basel your gf can speak her mother language let her do that job, is she so lazy or uninterested, that it's up to you to do everything alone, or what?) instead of asking advice from unknown persons on the internet that most probably are in a very different situation from yours and barely heard of anything like your case?
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  #49  
Old 03.02.2015, 23:58
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

hassan298

As you have permission/status to live in Italy as a refugee, you probably also have access to
a) perhaps some very small social security support (very low number of Euros per day, given to refugees by the Italian state).
b) medical care in Italy.

While you are in Switzerland as a tourist, you have no access to such help.
If you stay in Switzerland over the 3 months, you will definitely be here illegally.
And even if you find a way to live here legally, you will be given no money by the Swiss government, and you will have no automatic medical cover.

For your German partner to be allowed to let you live with her in Switzerland, she would have to prove to the Swiss government that she has enough money to support you long-term, which means she has to earn a lot; enough to be able to guarantee to pay all your costs of rent, food, clothing, transport and obligatory medical insurance, using her own money.

As she speaks German, she can do all the research about this herself. A good place to start is the Swiss government website, with lots of information: www.ch.ch.

Even if she gets permission, from the Swiss government, to let you move into her home and live with her, you will then have a permit to LIVE in Switzerland, but not to WORK in Switzerland. That means you would always remain financially dependent upon your partner. If your relationship with her ends, you will have no money, no security and no work. And your permit to live in Switzerland will end.

I also think it would be better for you to return to Italy.

I understand that if some men tried to get you to have sex with them, and you didn't want to do that, you could be feeling very shaken up and unhappy! I'm sorry that happened to you. Please remember that not all men, anywhere in the world, and therefore also not all men in Italy, are sex-hungry brutes. Most men, in fact, would not want to force anyone else to have sex. I'd like to encourage you to remember that, and to find those men and women in Italy who are good and kind and reasonable.

Here are some ideas for finding work in Italy. It is not paid work, but it would keep you busy, give you something useful to do, somewhere to live, and food to eat, and all that would probably be good for your sense of personal dignity and usefulness.
http://www.helpx.net/hostlist.asp?ho...=330&network=3
http://www.wwoof.it/en/

If you found a project like that, which would let you work there as a volunteer, in exchange for food and a place to sleep, you would at least be safe, to start with. You could use the time you work and live there practicing to speak, read and write Italian. And, depending on the other people there, also improving your English.

Sometimes, in such places of work, the volunteer workers meet lots of other people, and share life experiences, and that can give you company of good people. Together, you can develop some new ideas, and teach each other skills. Maybe the exchange will take you - through networking - closer to a real job.
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  #50  
Old 04.02.2015, 15:14
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[QUOTE=Bucentaure;2333648] Hello dear thanks for replying, Yeah I got same status which is in the desire link, that is called political status,

[QUOTE=Medea Fleecestealer;2333590] thanks Medea, thanks dear for more deep info, can you tell me which one documents will be needed exactly?? and how i can order something from pakistan because i don't family or some relatives left, they all death,

Last edited by 3Wishes; 04.02.2015 at 15:46. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #51  
Old 04.02.2015, 15:57
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

No, you would need to ask the gemeinde/cantonal migration office what documents they need. Check with the Pakistan embassy here in Switzerland about how you could get hold of any documents.
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  #52  
Old 04.02.2015, 17:21
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

thanks dear, yeah i went to pakistani embassy they gave like id card, and a copy of my pervious passport. on that paper written that i can't go back to dam pakistan. i will must ask the required doc, and papers. you know i tried so much to be stable in italy even i applied in university of rome to have some technical education, but they said that my documents are in english language and they sent them to pakistan and verify, attest and stuff, it took 9 months, GOD, and after that the admission is closed for more 4 months.
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  #53  
Old 05.02.2015, 00:06
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

hassan298
As you will see from these posts, many people are trying to help you and hoping for a good solution for you. Your situation is very difficult!

I think that it would be a huge mistake to live or work in any country illegally. Especially since you do, already, have papers saying you can stay in Italy legally.

Whichever way you go, whether you choose to try to find a safe and sane way to live in Italy (at least grateful that they have taken you in and will let you stay), or whether you and your German partner try to get married, it will mean a LOT of hard work to collect the documents, to learn the local language (whether Italian or German) and then to improve your skills so that you can have a better chance of finding work.

I understand that when life looks bleak and desperate, having to learn a language can feel like a terrible burden. But I do not see any way that you can build a life for yourself, if you do not speak, read and write the local language. And probably, for the purposes of getting a job, it would be good to practice your English more. All of that will be hard work. And it can make anyone feel exhausted, just thinking and thinking about how to do it!

In the short-term:
Is there an Italian Office for refugees, which will grant you a small allowance per day or per month, to cover the very, very basic needs? If yes, then I think you should ask for that amount of money.
Also ask there if there is any kind of advice centre.
Find out if you are allowed to transfer from one area of Italy to another, and still be paid that allowance. (That's what I hoped, when I posted about helpex and woofing, earlier.)

In the medium-term:
Here are some ideas which several people wrote down for another man on this forum, who asked for advice of how to find a way to get a permit in Switzerland. looking for a job and employer in switzerland
His situation is not the same as yours, because he is still able to live in his own country. But I think that some of the tips in that list could be of use to you. Please, of course, read it changing the names of the countries and languages.... as they apply to you.
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  #54  
Old 05.02.2015, 00:14
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

Indeed, what I worry about the worst,


- always given that OP has a recognized refugee status acknowledged -


is that nobody of his friends (German gf, Italian ?) pushed him to learn a good Italian (or German), to go look on the net for orgs like the one I posted before, stuff like Villa Pallavicino at Milano or Cittą Futura of Riace and things like that ...

Of course I have no insight and I don't want to judge.
Just that I don't really understand, out of interest and - I admit - ignorance.
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Old 05.02.2015, 00:39
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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... that nobody... pushed him to learn a good Italian (or German), to go look on the net for orgs....


It is my experience, over and over again, that some immigrants - from wherever, arriving wherever - underestimate the benefits of learning the local language. Others start work on it right away, and master the local language as fast as they can.


I have so much more fun, better relationships and understand the systems around me better, the better command I have of German. Therefore, for me, too, it is a mystery why anyone would ever want to live anywhere without making it a high priority to do that hard work that is necessary to learn the language. I don't, though, mean hassan298, in particular, because we do not, in fact, know how much effort he has or has not been making, to learn Italian or German.


Over the years, though, I've come to realise that there are a number of significant barriers to getting started with mastering a local language.


There can be deficits in all sorts of areas as, for example: basic education level in one's country of origin, compatibility of alphabets, having a safe place to live, having enough food, having the money to pay for a language school OR having the resources (social skills, money for internet access) to research solutions, money for transport to reach a free school, a quiet enough place to do homework, basic psychological health, basic physical health, balanced social relationships, help dealing with trauma and grief, culture shock and disorientation or even a temporary loss of one's sense of identity, demanding children or marriages, loneliness or hopelessness and depression, orientation towards science-maths-mechanics rather than towards languages altogether, any sense of entitlement (I'm here now, I'm speaking to them in English, so they should help me), a basic disbelief in the future, difficult employment situations, unemployment, and plain exhaustion, etc., etc..


So, I guess the most I can do is to understand that not everyone is ABLE to put in the same amount of hard work in learning languages, and to keep encouraging immigrants to do their best - whatever that "best" is, given their limitations at the time - to learn the local language and speak to local people. And to repeat that, at least for me, everything else got better once I started to become fluent enough for ease in everyday interactions.


So back to you, hassan298: I'd like to encourage you, again, to do everything in your power to learn Italian (because at least while you are collecting all your papers, you will probably be in Italy, I think, and that might take a year or two... and there can be no better environment to learn Italian than in Italy), to improve your English, and maybe also to learn German (especially if you and your partner hope to live together).
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  #56  
Old 05.02.2015, 01:49
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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...
I don't, though, mean hassan298, in particular, because we do not, in fact, know how much effort he has or has not been making, to learn Italian or German.
...
Well, he wrote:
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...
i went to the council that i don't have a job and i told them all situations they told me in italian language that italia ce niente it is means that italy don't have nothing, even italians are same like me because of all conditions ...
I.e. how could he possible think to get a good job in Italy without speaking an acceptable Italian, if already the Italians struggle to get a job? Which is quite the same thing in Basel, only that it's the German language thing over there ...


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...
Over the years, though, I've come to realise that there are a number of significant barriers to getting started with mastering a local language.


There can be deficits in all sorts of areas as, for example: basic education level in one's country of origin, compatibility of alphabets, having a safe place to live, having enough food, having the money to pay for a language school OR having the resources (social skills, money for internet access) to research solutions, money for transport to reach a free school, a quiet enough place to do homework, basic psychological health, basic physical health, balanced social relationships, help dealing with trauma and grief, culture shock and disorientation or even a temporary loss of one's sense of identity, demanding children or marriages, loneliness or hopelessness and depression, orientation towards science-maths-mechanics rather than towards languages altogether, any sense of entitlement (I'm here now, I'm speaking to them in English, so they should help me), a basic disbelief in the future, difficult employment situations, unemployment, and plain exhaustion, etc., etc..
...
Yes, absolutely. All valid arguments. Question is if it helps. His girlfriend maybe could.
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  #57  
Old 05.02.2015, 02:36
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

As much as I sympathised with OP, in all fairness, I can't help but think whether his willing to find a good job in this position (refugee or asylum seeker), not knowing the local language and not having a specialisation (which doesn't always mean something from the academic sphere) that is highly in demand over there....it sounds very unrealistic??

Maybe it's not that bad to be a bit more humble and accept a job even if it is bellow your education and/or aspirations...lots of people are doing that and they're not even taking refuge from anything as horrific as OP does, given the fact that me might be killed if he goes back home, as he once said.
In time, after learning the language and continuing education, he can improve his situation, or simply other opportunities might open up..

Well, each to their own. But I'm afraid that there are moments when you can't really afford aiming "high"...sadly.
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Old 05.02.2015, 09:05
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

The problem is Catch 22. He has no higher qualifications which would possibly alleviate the need to learn another language if he can get by in English, but perversely the other jobs like cook, cleaner, shop work, labourer, etc, will definitely need him to speak the local language whether that's Italian or German. So finding a job anywhere is going to be extremely difficult without knowing the local language.

hassan298, you could try appling to Rome again, given that they already have your documents now. Or alternatively, try and get them back from the uni, which would save some time in trying to get them from Pakistan again. Given your status the Swiss authorities might accept them even though they're older than 6 months.
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Old 05.02.2015, 09:12
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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The problem is Catch 22. He has no higher qualifications which would possibly alleviate the need to learn another language if he can get by in English, but perversely the other jobs like cook, cleaner, shop work, labourer, etc, will definitely need him to speak the local language whether that's Italian or German. So finding a job anywhere is going to be extremely difficult without knowing the local language.
Not really, it is required a very basic knowledge of local language for some manual jobs such as cleaner, labourer etc. Italy wouldn't have 4 millions of immigrants otherwise... sorry Medea, but in Italy, as racist (with most of immigrants) a country as it is, one can like, clean. Or pick tomatoes. Or work in construction sites. Or whatever.

I'm not saying it's ideal because it's not. But, better than being killed or being hungry in your country...
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Old 05.02.2015, 09:52
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Not really, it is required a very basic knowledge of local language for some manual jobs such as cleaner, labourer etc. Italy wouldn't have 4 millions of immigrants otherwise... sorry Medea, but in Italy, as racist (with most of immigrants) a country as it is, one can like, clean. Or pick tomatoes. Or work in construction sites. Or whatever.

I'm not saying it's ideal because it's not. But, better than being killed or being hungry in your country...
Italy has millions of immigrants because it's the closest point for entry from Africa by people trying to get across the Med. Nothing to do with their language skills or lack of them.

But hassan's profile says he speaks Italian so that shouldn't be a handicap in Italy. Yet he still couldn't find a job even as a cleaner, picker, etc.
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