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  #61  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:00
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Italy has millions of immigrants because it's the closest point for entry from Africa by people trying to get across the Med. Nothing to do with their language skills or lack of them.

But hassan's profile says he speaks Italian so that shouldn't be a handicap in Italy. Yet he still couldn't find a job even as a cleaner, picker, etc.
Those people wouldn't stay there if there was no way to sustain themselves, with or without language skills....not because of or lack thereof. And a big chunk of those immigrants come from Europe, also China, Philippines, India, Bangladesh, even some countries from South America btw
There's a significant community of Moroccans and Tunisians which is rather stable...

I don't know why he didn't find anything, maybe he doesn't know anyone there, maybe the asylum seeking system didn't help him at all. It's hard to say, but he did mention he wanted to find a "good job". I don't know what that means to him, I could only assume.

Last edited by greenmount; 05.02.2015 at 10:22.
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  #62  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:19
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Those people wouldn't stay there if there was no way to sustain themselves, with or without language skills....not because of or lack thereof. And a big chunk of those immigrants come from Europe, also China, Philippines, India, Bangladesh, even some countries from South America btw
There's a significant community of Moroccans and Tunisians which is rather stable...
Really? I can't see anyone from a European country immigrating to Italy or Spain at the moment. I'm talking EU ones here - though I can't see non-EU ones wanting to go there either.
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  #63  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:25
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Really? I can't see anyone from a European country immigrating to Italy or Spain at the moment. I'm talking EU ones here - though I can't see non-EU ones wanting to go there either.
Why? Do you think there's no need for people willing to do jobs there's no way a Italian or a Spaniard would do today? Really?
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  #64  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:31
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Really? I can't see anyone from a European country immigrating to Italy or Spain at the moment. I'm talking EU ones here -
Why not?

I know several who have recently.

Tom
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  #65  
Old 05.02.2015, 10:48
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

Hassan, this is so hard for you- but they are right, there is no way you will get a work permit here. You have to go back to Italy- as if you are caught here working illegally, they will send you back to Pakistan and not Italy.

Due to the recent bank exchange rates, the Swiss economy is taking a downturn, and employers all over the place are already making people unemployed, reducing salaries and asking workers to work more hours- as well as making longer-term plans for partial work/unemployment and redundancies (that is getting rid of a % of their workers)- so it is NOT a good time to seek work. This is happening in tourism as well as in industry. Most Swiss industries export a large % of their manufacture- their goods were already very expensive compared to other countries, so they relied on the 'quality' label (as in the watch industry, or precision engineering, etc)- but 2 weeks ago- the exchange rate put up prices by 17% extra- which will have real consequences.

Not your fault, I know, and I feel for you. But a work-permit will not materialise- and especially not in the current circumstances. I am very sorry.
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  #66  
Old 05.02.2015, 12:50
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

I think some here have a bit too much confidence in the Italian way of dealing with refugees (or any immigrant, really). Of course I haven't lived there, let alone worked in that field and can't give a final assessment, but from what I read and heard over the years, Italy is basically incapable of dealing with asylum-seekers, provides little to no help for them to get settled or find a job and government officials sometimes pay them off to leave (though of course not allowed).

Switzerland may have many faults, but at least it's doing a decent enough job when it comes to dealing with immigration and asylum-seekers. Taking this for granted and assuming this is how it works elsewhere in the world, or even elsewhere in Europe, is probably not realistic.
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  #67  
Old 05.02.2015, 13:18
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Why? Do you think there's no need for people willing to do jobs there's no way a Italian or a Spaniard would do today? Really?
If the Italians/Spanish are really as hard up as they're making out to be then there should be NO job that they're not willing to do themselves.
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  #68  
Old 05.02.2015, 13:42
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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If the Italians/Spanish are really as hard up as they're making out to be then there should be NO job that they're not willing to do themselves.
Here's a fact for you: an Italian can go and be a waitress, cook help, etc. in Germany or UK for much better money than back home. Why would he choose to be a cleaner in Italy?
Even UK admitted most of the newly arrived are from this area.
Really, you are not accustomed with Italy as an immigrant (I know people who worked there, fancy that), which is fine, but please, don't insist. One of them is married to an Italian and lives in canton Ticino now, because...it's better for both of them!
Btw, the Spaniards are (much?) better at dealing with immigrants/refugees, don't mix them up.

.....and this

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I think some here have a bit too much confidence in the Italian way of dealing with refugees (or any immigrant, really). Of course I haven't lived there, let alone worked in that field and can't give a final assessment, but from what I read and heard over the years, Italy is basically incapable of dealing with asylum-seekers, provides little to no help for them to get settled or find a job and government officials sometimes pay them off to leave (though of course not allowed).

Switzerland may have many faults, but at least it's doing a decent enough job when it comes to dealing with immigration and asylum-seekers. Taking this for granted and assuming this is how it works elsewhere in the world, or even elsewhere in Europe, is probably not realistic.

Last edited by greenmount; 05.02.2015 at 13:55.
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  #69  
Old 05.02.2015, 15:00
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

I would doubt that, Greenmount.


Italy always used to be very generous with immigration and immigrants, meanwhile Spain by comparison is really 3d world.


I would also put a big question mark with regards to Swiss policies in this field.


As a matter of fact, Italy issues documents like the ones Hassan was speaking about much more easily than other countries, Switzerland and Germany e.g. included.


Of course one of the reasons why Italy is a magnet for immigrants is that it's relatively easy to access from Greece, Turkey, Albania, Africa, long coast plus Islands and all that stuff, many want to use it as a hub for other countries like France, Switzerland and Germany, Scandinavia maybe,


but Italy is attractive also because it's known that other refugees made it to get their Status recognized before. Plus Tunisians, Albanians, persons who have stayed in Lybia before, maybe from Somalia and so on, in many cases already speak a good Italian, watch Italian TV also in their home countries e.g.
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Old 05.02.2015, 15:07
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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I would doubt that, Greenmount.


Italy always used to be very generous with immigration and immigrants, meanwhile Spain by comparison is really 3d world.


I would also put a big question mark with regards to Swiss policies in this field.


As a matter of fact, Italy issues documents like the ones Hassan was speaking about much more easily than other countries, Switzerland and Germany e.g. included.


Of course one of the reasons why Italy is a magnet for immigrants is that it's relatively easy to access from Greece, Turkey, Albania, Africa, long coast plus Islands and all that stuff, many want to use it as a hub for other countries like France, Switzerland and Germany, Scandinavia maybe,


but Italy is attractive also because it's known that other refugees made it to get their Status recognized before. Plus Tunisians, Albanians, persons who have stayed in Lybia before, maybe from Somalia and so on, in many cases already speak a good Italian, watch Italian TV also in their home countries e.g.
I am not sure how they treat refugees, although as other poster has mentioned the rumours are not favourable, and I suppose they have to comply with international laws and agreements, but they treat immigrants very badly. It's been heavily documented. That doesn't mean they cannot find work! Oh, no.
You're talking from the perspective of someone who doesn't know the daily life of non-Western(non-EU) European immigrants.
It's OK. You can doubt.
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  #71  
Old 05.02.2015, 15:16
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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As a matter of fact, Italy issues documents like the ones Hassan was speaking about much more easily than other countries, Switzerland and Germany e.g. included.
What good does a document do if you're left alone and homeless after receiving it or, even worse, are being sent packing? Even if you receive that document on the first day, it's worth nothing if that is all you get.

There's a reason so many asylum seekers are moving on from Italy, voluntarily or in exchange for that nice little fee mentioned earlier.

Google "Italy" and "asylum seekers" and reports will show how bad the situation is.

Switzerland might be more restrictive and slow in issuing documents, but at least the refugees are being treated somewhat humanly why they are waiting and the ones that do get permits also receive quite a bit of help later.

But that is likely even the problem: geography aside, many go to Italy because they think it's great if you get your document immediately. They don't consider or know that they won't get anything else (how would they?).

http://www.proasyl.de/fileadmin/fm-d...ENDVERSION.pdf
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  #72  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:04
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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What good does a document do if you're left alone and homeless after receiving it or, even worse, are being sent packing? Even if you receive that document on the first day, it's worth nothing if that is all you get.
...
It's worth something, as it's a provisional id with the right to travel, e.g.

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...
Google "Italy" and "asylum seekers" and reports will show how bad the situation is.
...
I know. But it's rather that in other places of the world (and in a certain sense this is the case of Switzerland, as asylum seekers get more easily simply sent back at the border, remember recent cases?) it's even worse.

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But that is likely even the problem: geography aside, many go to Italy because they think it's great if you get your document immediately. They don't consider or know that they won't get anything else (how would they?).

http://www.proasyl.de/fileadmin/fm-d...ENDVERSION.pdf
A friend of mine, of Egyptian origin, is a former asylum seeker in Italy. He made it and he got a decent life, bought an apartment and other "normal" stuff for an Italian (yes, he had a work as a nurse, once this wasn't so difficult in Italy).
Would have never been possible in Switzerland.

I'm aware that this was 15/20 years ago, when many new refugees from Albania and Kosovo arrived. It was another situation, not like today when immigration is not only massive but just heartbraking impressive, due to Mideast instability.
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  #73  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:20
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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It's worth something, as it's a provisional id with the right to travel, e.g.
Even if they can travel, what does that help and where would they go? They have zero money, no job, can't work anywhere else outside the country that first took them in, usually don't speak any of the local languages and have no access to healthcare or social security.

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I know. But it's rather that in other places of the world (and in a certain sense this is the case of Switzerland, as asylum seekers get more easily simply sent back at the border, remember recent cases?) it's even worse.
Most of these recent cases happened because especially Italy ignored the Dublin agreement, and instead preferred to pay off their asylum seekers to go try their luck elsewhere (or just sent them away, period). So Switzerland or other countries are supposed to take in all those refugees simply because some country doesn't stick to what was once agreed on? That cannot possibly be a solution.

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A friend of mine, of Egyptian origin, is a former asylum seeker in Italy. He made and he got a decent life, bought an apartment and other "normal" stuff for an Italian (yes, he had a work as a nurse, once this wasn't so difficult in Italy).
Would have never been possible in Switzerland

I'm aware that this was 15/20 years ago, when many new refugees from Albania and Kosovo arrived. It was another situation, not like today when immigration is not only massive but just heartbraking impressive, due to mideast instability.
What is it that leads you to conclude that this "would have never been possible in Switzerland"? There are TONS of former refugess here esp. from Ex-Yugoslavia that have a perfectly decent life.

The problems these days are different, as you say yourself, and that is true for every developed country, be it Italy, Switzerland or any other.
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Old 05.02.2015, 16:21
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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thanks dear, yeah i went to pakistani embassy they gave like id card, and a copy of my pervious passport. on that paper written that i can't go back to dam pakistan. i will must ask the required doc, and papers. you know i tried so much to be stable in italy even i applied in university of rome to have some technical education, but they said that my documents are in english language and they sent them to pakistan and verify, attest and stuff, it took 9 months, GOD, and after that the admission is closed for more 4 months.
The Pakistani embassy said that you could not go back to Pakistan? Wow. Can not believe they would or could do
That.
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  #75  
Old 05.02.2015, 16:55
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Even if they can travel, what does that help and where would they go? They have zero money, no job, can't work anywhere else outside the country that first took them in, usually don't speak any of the local languages and have no access to healthcare or social security.
...
Well, yes, Italy struggles in assisting all boat People coming over the Mediterranean Sea and everything,
but you cannot say that Italy lets them die of famine, which would simply not be true.


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Most of these recent cases happened because especially Italy ignored the Dublin agreement, and instead preferred to pay off their asylum seekers to go try their luck elsewhere (or just sent them away, period). So Switzerland or other countries are supposed to take in all those refugees simply because some country doesn't stick to what was once agreed on? That cannot possibly be a solution.
...
I have no solution either.
But by comparison, Italy is much more helpful towards refugees.


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What is it that leads you to conclude that this "would have never been possible in Switzerland"? There are TONS of former refugess here esp. from Ex-Yugoslavia that have a perfectly decent life.
...
From that region, yes.
From others not.


Egypt in the 1990ies was not among those countries a simple citizen fleeing from could be easily acknoledged his status in CH, afaik.
In Italy my friend had a chance. In Austria, where he has been trying first, he had not, e.g.
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  #76  
Old 05.02.2015, 21:12
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Don't risk your asylum seeker status! You're going to be sent back where you first got it anyway. The permission is to visit and stay as a tourist..(I have recently seen a Swedish documentary on this theme)
My opinion is to give another chance to Italy, and once you've somehow fixed your situation you could move to other parts of Europe.


Where exactly. Oh God......... How bad luck i have.....
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  #77  
Old 05.02.2015, 21:21
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

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Where exactly. Oh God......... How bad luck i have.....
Anywhere in Italy. You've been told this before. Your residence permit doesn't allow you to stay in another EU country for more than 3 months AS A TOURIST. It doesn't matter where in Italy so long as it's ITALY!

It's going to take months to sort out any permit application if you can even get the papers to start it so you must return to Italy. Your part of the process has to be done in Italy and you have to stay there while the application is being considered.

You're not allowed to be in Switzerland after 90 days so must go back. If you don't you're here illegally and that could affect any application for residency.
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  #78  
Old 05.02.2015, 21:24
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Re: how to get a work permit (any kind)

Do you speak Italian? With your English and Urdu?? I would head to a tourist area of Italy, there may be jobs for the summer in the tourism industry. Rome maybe.
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