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  #21  
Old 07.02.2015, 01:43
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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Generally, you have to wait for your permit to be approved outside of Switzerland and, more importantly, you also have to pick up the confirmation OUTSIDE Switzerland. Sure you can come here as a tourist, but it's highly unlikely you will be able to pick up your documents in the country - and yes, I've had plenty of cases where people did just travel here as a tourist, but had to leave again to pick up their documents at the embassy to which they were issued (which by default is the closest to your current home address).
And we've seen many times where people go pick up the visa outside of Switzerland yet somewhere in Europe, like Paris or Stuttgart or any number of other places. And really, Olso isn't so far. It's not like he has to go back to Japan.

Anyway, considering the OP said his work talked to the people at immigration, I'd go with what they say rather than our guesses.
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  #22  
Old 07.02.2015, 15:36
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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And we've seen many times where people go pick up the visa outside of Switzerland yet somewhere in Europe, like Paris or Stuttgart or any number of other places. And really, Olso isn't so far. It's not like he has to go back to Japan.
That's right, though I'd like to add that the pick-up location may not be easily changed during the process or after approval. Some embassies won't do it (I think I remember Paris having refused a few times). But as you say, Oslo isn't far, so OP, if you're prepared to maybe have to travel back and bear the cost yourself, possibly staying a night or two (as your passport needs to be processed at the embassy and each embassy has different timelines), then there's no problem with you coming to Switzerland earlier as a tourist.
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  #23  
Old 08.02.2015, 13:04
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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Hi all,

this is the deal. I will start working at ETH as a senior assistant on March 1st. The problem is that so far the permit has not been approved (but everybody is telling me that for scientists, it is always approved. I hope.)
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Thanks. Yes, it was Jan.

This is their exact reply

"The personnel department just confirmed that you can enter Switzerland
without problems, even if the permit would not be ready at that time.
Checked also with the migration office to be sure, they said to be
correct you would need to wait for the permit before entering
Switzerland - BUT since you are Japanese you can also enter the country
as a tourist. That would mean that you cannot register in Zürich until
your permit has arrived. But that is also not a problem, since you have
an ETH apartment."

Read carefully the reply in English, there is clear difference between PERMIT NOT READY and PERMIT NOT YET APPROVED.

I had the same issue previously and it's for sure that you can work ONCE PERMIT APPROVED in the canton system/database without receiving the plastic permit card (READY). It can take up to 6 weeks between the date of approval and the production&delivery of the permit.

I went to cantonal office and paid 25CHF to get a certificate saying my permit is APPROVED and they told me I can work. However, to make my HR convinced, I further requested the cantonal examiner of my case to send a confirmation by email saying I CAN WORK from the date of approval. Then I showed these paper to my boss and the permit came 3 weeks after I began my job. And...... I am non-EU, non-US/Canadian

So you may wish to confirm whether your permit has been approved or not.
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  #24  
Old 08.02.2015, 14:15
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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If you're fine with possibly having to go home again to pick up your documents, then do what you want and enter the country as a tourist. Of course you are not allowed to work until your permit is approved, but you already know that.
No problem returning. I will have to go to Stockholm since there is no Swiss consulate in Norway. I think they moved the consulate representation for all the Scandinavian countries to Sweden.

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Also, for non-EU citizens, there is ALWAYS a risk of a permit not being approved. No exceptions, contrary to what you may read. It is called a permit application for a reason - i.e. it's an application, not a guarantee.
Yes, I know the risk. We could always come back in case I do not get it. The idea is to have everything at friends' houses already packed (we have not furniture). It will be a pity though.

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And last but not least, well over 4 months is way too long for this process. It might be on hold somewhere and I would absolutely inquire when exactly the application was handed in and, if it's indeed been more than 4 months, I'd follow up with the authorities, if only to make sure there are no simple administrative issues involved such as missing documents
Yes, I know. I have the impression that they did not apply until December. But it is only a hunch. So far, I tried not to blame anybody about the delay. (although they asked me for the same papers/info at least twice).
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  #25  
Old 08.02.2015, 14:19
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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And we've seen many times where people go pick up the visa outside of Switzerland yet somewhere in Europe, like Paris or Stuttgart or any number of other places. And really, Olso isn't so far. It's not like he has to go back to Japan.

Anyway, considering the OP said his work talked to the people at immigration, I'd go with what they say rather than our guesses.
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That's right, though I'd like to add that the pick-up location may not be easily changed during the process or after approval. Some embassies won't do it (I think I remember Paris having refused a few times). But as you say, Oslo isn't far, so OP, if you're prepared to maybe have to travel back and bear the cost yourself, possibly staying a night or two (as your passport needs to be processed at the embassy and each embassy has different timelines), then there's no problem with you coming to Switzerland earlier as a tourist.
I was looking for some official information about this. I found this regarding Japanese nationals.


http://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home/...rigkeit/j.html

Visa required for stays of up to 90 days (B): No
Visa required for stays of more than 90 days (C): No

B) The maximum duration of short stays within the Schengen Area is 90 days in any 180-day period. The entry and departure dates are also used in the calculation of the duration of stay. This is as a tourist, I am guessing
C) For stays in Switzerland of more than 90 days, a residence permit is required. In principle, this residence permit has to be filed before entering Switzerland at the cantonal migration office. The same applies also to nationals of countries who are exempt from the obligation to hold a visa for stays of more than three months. This should apply for working, I am guessing


So I do not even need a Type-D Visa, does this mean that I do not even need to go to a Swiss consulate? Or do you also get a paper saying that your residence permit was approved?

Also it says that "In principle, this residence permit has to be filed before entering Switzerland", so if I understand correctly, filed does not even mean approved. Am I right?
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  #26  
Old 08.02.2015, 14:25
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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Read carefully the reply in English, there is clear difference between PERMIT NOT READY and PERMIT NOT YET APPROVED.
Yes, but I am not sure, if she said "permit not ready" because she thinks it will be approved, without any doubt.

I hope on Monday she will contact immigration again to check at which stage is my permit.
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  #27  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:08
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

More news.

"What I still could find out this morning is that your papers are in Bern
just now. It will take approx. 1 week until they are at the migration
office in Zürich. The Migration office takes apparently a few days to
process the papers."


So I am guessing if they are in Bern, it means that Zurich gave the ok. From this point, how long would Bern take to come to a decision? Any estimate?

She still thinks I would get it before March 1st, is there any reason to believe that the secretary is right?
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  #28  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:25
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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They appear to be being rather slow, we gave a job to a new post-doc from Russia in November, to start on the first of Feb, she's still stuck in Russia, and can't book flights or find accomadation until she gets her permit. Very frustraiting to all of us.
Update. We found out she is approved and now have to wait a few days before we get the paperwork and she can take it to the embassy for the physical visa. She should be in the country by the end of the month. Sounds like you are at the same stage, approved but waiting for confirmation and paperwork. You probably will be OK by the 1st, but just in case, ask ETH if you can start later. We have done so for our post-doc who was meant to start last week.
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  #29  
Old 09.02.2015, 13:37
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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Update. We found out she is approved and now have to wait a few days before we get the paperwork and she can take it to the embassy for the physical visa. She should be in the country by the end of the month. Sounds like you are at the same stage, approved but waiting for confirmation and paperwork. You probably will be OK by the 1st, but just in case, ask ETH if you can start later. We have done so for our post-doc who was meant to start last week.
is she approved at the federal or only at the cantonal level at this point?
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  #30  
Old 09.02.2015, 14:38
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

We have approval from the Office for Economy and Labour. And are waiting for the Migration office. The letter came from Canton Zurich, along with the bill, so I guess it's approved everywhere, except migration yet. As far as I can work out she has the work permit and therefore the residence permit should be approved in a few days.
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  #31  
Old 09.02.2015, 14:56
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Ehm just so that this is clear: the application first goes to cantonal authorities, then the federal migration office, then back to the canton to its department of justice and security.

It therefore needs to be approved/confirmed by all three and there must be some some kind of written confirmation before someone is allowed to work (and/or enter the country, depending on the nationality).

The federal migration office is the one that usually takes the longest to decide; the cantons approve pretty much anything within a few days (probably not all cantons, but some).
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  #32  
Old 09.02.2015, 15:09
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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It therefore needs to be approved/confirmed by all three and there must be some some kind of written confirmation before someone is allowed to work (and/or enter the country, depending on the nationality).

The federal migration office is the one that usually takes the longest to decide; the cantons approve pretty much anything within a few days (probably not all cantons, but some).
Ok, so I am 1 out of 3 now.
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  #33  
Old 10.02.2015, 17:08
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

I have heard much about, ...... I was told this , etc.......My advice , don't believe anything unless you have it in writing- preferable signed, stamped, notarized, and sealed in gold leaves. Nothing is valid per verbal. The beauracracy always is Boss Hogg UNLESS there is black and white to counter.

My lesson learned.
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  #34  
Old 10.02.2015, 17:11
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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...My advice , don't believe anything unless you have it in writing....
Agree. It seems the verbal answers you get depend on whom you talk to, along with the phases of the moon, whether the sun was shining that day, and sometimes the color of shirt the person wore.
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Old 10.02.2015, 17:20
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Yes, I know the risks.

Here in Norway, a friend went to the local NAV (RAV over there), and asked an employee on how to apply for unemployment. He was told: sure you qualify, do this and that.

In the end, he did not qualify. So asked the same guy again what was wrong. His reply was a simple: I was wrong.
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Old 19.02.2015, 11:38
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Finally, the permit was approved in Bern and it is back in Zurich. Took 9 days.

Now, waiting for Zurich to finish it up.


Last edited by murphy70; 19.02.2015 at 12:45.
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  #37  
Old 19.02.2015, 11:52
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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In the end, he did not qualify. So asked the same guy again what was wrong. His reply was a simple: I was wrong.
In Switzerland the story would be the same except the ending would be "You misunderstood".
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  #38  
Old 19.02.2015, 11:57
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

How do you get to know permit approval status at various stages?

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Finally, the permit was approved in Bern and back in Zurich. Took 9 days.

Now, waiting for Zurich to finish it up.

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Old 19.02.2015, 12:44
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Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

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How do you get to know permit approval status at various stages?
By telling the secretary that if the permit does not come on time, we will be homeless and jobless!!!

So she called immigration and found out that the permit had just arrived in Bern 10 days ago, and then yesterday she told me that it is back at ETHZ, and that it is a matter of days until it is approved.
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