Go Back   English Forum Switzerland > Help & tips > Permits/visas/government
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 06.02.2015, 16:28
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Adapting to Zürich
Posts: 97
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
murphy70 has no particular reputation at present
Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Hi all,

this is the deal. I will start working at ETH as a senior assistant on March 1st. The problem is that so far the permit has not been approved (but everybody is telling me that for scientists, it is always approved. I hope.)

I am not sure when they applied for it, since they started asking me for information in September. Last time it was ~1.5 months ago, where I submitted the einreisegesuch or entry permit and the Amt für Wirtschaft und Arbeit. On Jan. 13th, they told me that it would take another 4-6 weeks.

Today I just received notification by the secretary that I could still go there even if the permit is not approved by March 1st (she contacted both the personnel department and the migration office), since I am Japanese and I can enter the country as a tourist. What I cannot do is to register in the commune nor work.

Anybody has any experience with this? Can I go as a tourist (ETH will provide an apartment for two months) and then once I get the permit go directly to the commune? Do I need to leave the country? As far as I know, I do not even need a D-type Visa.

From http://www.ethz.ch/en/the-eth-zurich...ou-arrive.html

"Citizens from Andorra, Brunei, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, San Marino, Singapore and the Vatican City only require the residence permit to have been approved before they enter Switzerland."

We are less than a month till I have to leave Norway and we do not even have our tickets. Quite frustrating.

Last edited by murphy70; 06.02.2015 at 17:01.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 06.02.2015, 16:53
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 6,524
Groaned at 43 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 9,163 Times in 4,357 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

I assume you meant Jan. 13th? If so you're coming up on 4 weeks and there's nothing wrong with following up with the cantonal authorities to get more information.

Based on your own quote, no you should not enter, as your residence permit is not yet approved. You're not coming as a tourist.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #3  
Old 06.02.2015, 17:05
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Adapting to Zürich
Posts: 97
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
murphy70 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Thanks. Yes, it was Jan.

This is their exact reply

"The personnel department just confirmed that you can enter Switzerland
without problems, even if the permit would not be ready at that time.
Checked also with the migration office to be sure, they said to be
correct you would need to wait for the permit before entering
Switzerland - BUT since you are Japanese you can also enter the country
as a tourist. That would mean that you cannot register in Zürich until
your permit has arrived. But that is also not a problem, since you have
an ETH apartment."

So on one side I found out that I cannot, but they are telling me that I can.

My main problem is my rent in Norway that I have to terminate on March 1st. And the tickets that I still do not have and the shipping of our stuff. So my girlfriend and I can become homeless and jobless soon.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 06.02.2015, 17:09
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,522
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,656 Times in 5,512 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
Hi all,

this is the deal. I will start working at ETH as a senior assistant on March 1st. The problem is that so far the permit has not been approved (but everybody is telling me that for scientists, it is always approved. I hope.)

I am not sure when they applied for it, since they started asking me for information in September. Last time it was ~1.5 months ago, where I submitted the einreisegesuch or entry permit and the Amt für Wirtschaft und Arbeit. On Feb. 13th, they told me that it would take another 4-6 weeks.

Today I just received notification by the secretary that I could still go there even if the permit is not approved by March 1st (she contacted both the personnel department and the migration office), since I am Japanese and I can enter the country as a tourist. What I cannot do is to register in the commune nor work.

Anybody has any experience with this? Can I go as a tourist (ETH will provide an apartment for two months) and then once I get the permit go directly to the commune? Do I need to leave the country? As far as I know, I do not even need a D-type Visa.

From www.ethz.ch/en/the-eth-zurich/welcome-center/before-you-arrive.html

"Citizens from Andorra, Brunei, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, San Marino, Singapore and the Vatican City only require the residence permit to have been approved before they enter Switzerland."

We are less than a month till I have to leave Norway and we do not even have our tickets. Quite frustrating.
I think it's quite clear from your quote:

"Citizens from Andorra, Brunei, Japan, Malaysia, New Zealand, San Marino, Singapore and the Vatican City only require the residence permit to have been approved before they enter Switzerland."

It's even emphasised in the paragraph below:

Please note: You may not enter Switzerland until you have received your visa or been approved for a residence permit!

Until the permit is approved you shouldn't come, even as a tourist.

It's up to you whether you can the risk or not, but there's always a chance the permit application will be refused so you'd have to leave again.

Either they've been slow with the application, assuming they started in September last or there are questions being asked re the application itself. Did she tell you whether it was still at cantonal level or has it gone up to the Federal office for approval?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #5  
Old 06.02.2015, 17:13
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Adapting to Zürich
Posts: 97
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
murphy70 has no particular reputation at present
Yes, that is what I think so too. I should not go there without it.

Just sent an email asking if it is at the cantonal or federal level. Thanks!

Quote:
View Post

Please note: You may not enter Switzerland until you have received your visa or been approved for a residence permit!

Until the permit is approved you shouldn't come, even as a tourist.
But it says you may not enter, does it mean that I cannot enter, even as a tourist?

Last edited by 3Wishes; 06.02.2015 at 17:53. Reason: merging successive posts
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 06.02.2015, 17:40
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,522
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,656 Times in 5,512 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
But it says you may not enter, does it mean that I cannot enter, even as a tourist?
As 3Wishes, pointed out you're not coming as a tourist. You're coming to take up a position with ETH and so need to wait for permit approval before you do so.

If you want to take the risk that's up to you, but there is never a guarantee that a permit will be approved no matter what ETH say.

See what they reply to your e-mail. If the application is still at cantonal level, there's no way it's going to be approved at Federal in the next couple of weeks.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #7  
Old 06.02.2015, 17:48
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Adapting to Zürich
Posts: 97
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
murphy70 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Thanks again. Of course I do not want to do anything illegal.

Fortunately, I have the permanent residence in Norway, so I can stay here indefinitely. I think I might even have unemployment benefits for two years.

Since I will be moving inside the Schengen area, what kind of paper will I have to show saying what was my date of arrival? Do you know where could I get it at the airport since my passport will not be stamped?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 06.02.2015, 18:02
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,522
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,656 Times in 5,512 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Plane or train ticket would suffice I guess. If you're travelling on a Japanese passport you'll have to go through the non-EU control anyway and will get stamped on entry. Your residence status in Norway means nothing in Switzerland when coming here for work purposes although obviously you could use it as a tourist.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #9  
Old 06.02.2015, 18:08
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Adapting to Zürich
Posts: 97
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
murphy70 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
Plane or train ticket would suffice I guess. If you're travelling on a Japanese passport you'll have to go through the non-EU control anyway and will get stamped on entry
But is there a non-EU control inside Schengen? Last time I was there, I went right through. Remember that I am moving from Norway, so I am moving inside Schengen, so no passport control at all.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 06.02.2015, 18:26
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Adapting to Zürich
Posts: 97
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
murphy70 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

The offices are closed now, so the secretary will find out next week. She still thinks I should get it before March 1st. Maybe she is psychic.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 06.02.2015, 18:41
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,522
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,656 Times in 5,512 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
But is there a non-EU control inside Schengen? Last time I was there, I went right through. Remember that I am moving from Norway, so I am moving inside Schengen, so no passport control at all.
Yeah, sorry, brain failure.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:11
MsWorWoo's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Zürich Nord
Posts: 1,484
Groaned at 47 Times in 27 Posts
Thanked 2,214 Times in 866 Posts
MsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond reputeMsWorWoo has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

They appear to be being rather slow, we gave a job to a new post-doc from Russia in November, to start on the first of Feb, she's still stuck in Russia, and can't book flights or find accomadation until she gets her permit. Very frustraiting to all of us.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank MsWorWoo for this useful post:
  #13  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:15
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: GE
Posts: 140
Groaned at 13 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 137 Times in 57 Posts
bugger is considered knowledgeablebugger is considered knowledgeablebugger is considered knowledgeable
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

From what i understand, you are allowed, and it is quite simple for you as a japanese citizen, to come to CH as a tourist without a need of a VISA. I initially thought that at border control they might ask to see a return ticket, but since you are moving within EU, you might not be checked at all. If you do not start working (ie going to work, getting on the payroll, etc) before the permit is approved, meaning you are really staying as a tourist, then nothing is illegal here.
I think the important questions you need to find answers are
1) Is there any problem if you stay in the apartment provided by ETH, as a tourist
2) Do you need to get out and re enter CH to receive your permit ( I dont think it is the case but Im not sure)
All in all, I think the secretary suggested this as a legal way to reduce the level of uncertainty for your relocation (terminating the rent of your current apartment, buying air tickets, shipping personal belongings, etc)
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bugger for this useful post:
  #14  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:20
3Wishes's Avatar
Moderately Amused
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Bern area
Posts: 6,524
Groaned at 43 Times in 39 Posts
Thanked 9,163 Times in 4,357 Posts
3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute3Wishes has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
...All in all, I think the secretary suggested this as a legal way to reduce the level of uncertainty for your relocation ...shipping personal belongings, etc)
But how does a "tourist" import his or her belongings? What do you put on the paperwork?
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank 3Wishes for this useful post:
  #15  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:29
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: GE
Posts: 140
Groaned at 13 Times in 4 Posts
Thanked 137 Times in 57 Posts
bugger is considered knowledgeablebugger is considered knowledgeablebugger is considered knowledgeable
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Ok you are right, maybe not for shipping stuff, but it would definitely help with the rent and ticket though
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank bugger for this useful post:
  #16  
Old 06.02.2015, 22:53
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Adapting to Zürich
Posts: 97
Groaned at 0 Times in 0 Posts
Thanked 41 Times in 24 Posts
murphy70 has no particular reputation at present
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
1) Is there any problem if you stay in the apartment provided by ETH, as a tourist
2) Do you need to get out and re enter CH to receive your permit ( I dont think it is the case but Im not sure)
All in all, I think the secretary suggested this as a legal way to reduce the level of uncertainty for your relocation (terminating the rent of your current apartment, buying air tickets, shipping personal belongings, etc)
She told me I can stay at the ETH apartment even as a tourist. I have it for two months.

Regarding the permit, does anybody know? Is the notification given to ETH or send to the address I wrote in the form?

In any case, we are planning on shipping our stuff once we have a permanent place to stay.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 06.02.2015, 23:01
Island Monkey's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Wallis
Posts: 3,381
Groaned at 62 Times in 32 Posts
Thanked 2,966 Times in 1,470 Posts
Island Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond reputeIsland Monkey has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

One your D-visa is approved… you will have to go and collect it from where ever you applied for it… Norway hopefully, not Japan?? Then enter Switzerland properly. Just bear this in mind.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Island Monkey for this useful post:
  #18  
Old 06.02.2015, 23:32
Medea Fleecestealer's Avatar
Forum Legend
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Misery-Courtion
Posts: 13,522
Groaned at 171 Times in 135 Posts
Thanked 9,656 Times in 5,512 Posts
Medea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond reputeMedea Fleecestealer has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
She told me I can stay at the ETH apartment even as a tourist. I have it for two months.

Regarding the permit, does anybody know? Is the notification given to ETH or send to the address I wrote in the form?

In any case, we are planning on shipping our stuff once we have a permanent place to stay.
Probably sent to your address, though they may inform ETH as well. After all you're the one who needs to know whether the permit has been approved or not so I would hope they'd contact you direct.
Reply With Quote
This user would like to thank Medea Fleecestealer for this useful post:
  #19  
Old 07.02.2015, 00:58
22 yards's Avatar
Only in moderation
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Basel-Land
Posts: 6,611
Groaned at 188 Times in 147 Posts
Thanked 10,974 Times in 4,533 Posts
22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute22 yards has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Quote:
View Post
Until the permit is approved you shouldn't come, even as a tourist.

It's up to you whether you can the risk or not, but there's always a chance the permit application will be refused so you'd have to leave again.
Nonsense ...

Quote:
View Post
If you're travelling on a Japanese passport you'll have to go through the non-EU control anyway and will get stamped on entry.
... nonsense ...

Quote:
View Post
Your residence status in Norway means nothing in Switzerland when coming here for work purposes although obviously you could use it as a tourist.
... and more nonsense.

Of course the OP can visit Switzerland as a tourist. He can visit whenever he likes, without a visa. He can visit a month before he gets his residency permit, or the day before, whatever he likes. According to your logic, it would be impossible for any non-EU person to visit Switzerland to see whether they like the place (or for any other reason) after accepting a job offer and having their name put into the cogs of the work permit process.

As the OP currently resides within the Schengen area, he can come and go as he pleases. No visa is required, as a tourist. He just wouldn't be allowed to register or to work -- as stated by the ETH person. And he certainly wouldn't have to enter Switzerland through some "non-EU control".

Finally, the residence status in Norway has no value for the OP's visits to Switzerland as a tourist. As a Japanese national, he is welcome to visit visa-free, and if his journey originates in the Schengen area (which includes Norway), he won't even need his passport or Norwegian residency papers (unless the airline requires it for identification).

Please refrain from providing advice on impulse. Advice provided without knowledge of the facts is harmful rather than helpful.
Reply With Quote
The following 2 users would like to thank 22 yards for this useful post:
  #20  
Old 07.02.2015, 01:20
Samaire13's Avatar
Forum Veteran
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: CH
Posts: 2,344
Groaned at 59 Times in 46 Posts
Thanked 3,488 Times in 1,366 Posts
Samaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond reputeSamaire13 has a reputation beyond repute
Re: Can I enter Switzerland to work as Japanese without an approved permit?

Just because you can do something doesn't always mean you should.

Generally, you have to wait for your permit to be approved outside of Switzerland and, more importantly, you also have to pick up the confirmation OUTSIDE Switzerland. Sure you can come here as a tourist, but it's highly unlikely you will be able to pick up your documents in the country - and yes, I've had plenty of cases where people did just travel here as a tourist, but had to leave again to pick up their documents at the embassy to which they were issued (which by default is the closest to your current home address).

If you're fine with possibly having to go home again to pick up your documents, then do what you want and enter the country as a tourist. Of course you are not allowed to work until your permit is approved, but you already know that.

Also, for non-EU citizens, there is ALWAYS a risk of a permit not being approved. No exceptions, contrary to what you may read. It is called a permit application for a reason - i.e. it's an application, not a guarantee.

And last but not least, well over 4 months is way too long for this process. It might be on hold somewhere and I would absolutely inquire when exactly the application was handed in and, if it's indeed been more than 4 months, I'd follow up with the authorities, if only to make sure there are no simple administrative issues involved such as missing documents
Reply With Quote
The following 4 users would like to thank Samaire13 for this useful post:
Reply




Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My permit is approved. Can I go to local Gemeinde without picking up my VISA D? Cheezecake Permits/visas/government 26 14.01.2015 12:40
Ci permit question: can I re-enter Switzerland? sector Permits/visas/government 2 21.02.2011 10:13
How many days before B permit expires can a non-EU citizen enter Switzerland? denizkabakci Permits/visas/government 1 02.08.2010 14:35
Does a EU citizen require a work visa to enter Switzerland to be able to work? Spanish Mover Permits/visas/government 9 22.06.2009 20:59
is it possible to get an au pair into Switzerland without a visa or a work permit? goombie Family matters/health 3 26.06.2008 07:46


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 22:23.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
LinkBacks Enabled by vBSEO 3.1.0