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Old 01.03.2015, 17:56
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Non EU applying for a C permit

Hi there,
I have been trying to search the posts on EF but am not sure if they are up to date as I hear there were a few changes...
I am a Non EU living in Zurich for nearly 5 years. I was on an L permit for the first 2 years and then it was replaced with a B permit, renewed every year, which I still hold.
My questions are as follows:
1. Am I allowed to apply for an early non EU C Permit after those 5 years i.e. do the 2 years on an L permit count?
2. what type of exam I must pass? is it A2 or B1?
3. As I am the main Permit holder, does my wife need to pass the same exam?
I also have kids under 12 who are fully integrated and speak German... 😁. Does that give me any advantage?
Many thanks for any useful feedback!
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Old 01.03.2015, 18:50
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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Hi there,
I have been trying to search the posts on EF but am not sure if they are up to date as I hear there were a few changes...
I am a Non EU living in Zurich for nearly 5 years. I was on an L permit for the first 2 years and then it was replaced with a B permit, renewed every year, which I still hold.
My questions are as follows:
1. Am I allowed to apply for an early non EU C Permit after those 5 years i.e. do the 2 years on an L permit count?
2. what type of exam I must pass? is it A2 or B1?
3. As I am the main Permit holder, does my wife need to pass the same exam?
I also have kids under 12 who are fully integrated and speak German... 😁. Does that give me any advantage?
Many thanks for any useful feedback!
1. I think you need 5 years with a B, but don't quote me on that. Have you read this thread?

Early C Permit for a Non-EU National through VINTA

3. Yes. No.
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  #3  
Old 01.03.2015, 22:17
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

Thank you very much for your reply.
Yes, I did read that thread but this was posted back in 2011 and I understand that there were recent changes in Zurich Canton.
Does anyone else have some experience?
Do I have to have a B Permit for 5 years or is it enough to have 2 years with L and 3 years with B?
Also with regards to the language certificate for non EU (not American), A2 or B1?
Thank you!
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Old 02.03.2015, 14:35
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

Hi Yeida,

In the first instance you do not need to send any documents. Just inform the migrationsamt by written letter that you apply for a early C permit because you are well integrated, speak German, working...etc. and you can send over the necessary documents once it is requested

then they will answer you

1) okay, please send these documents a,b,c,d,e...
2) no, because you are not bla bla (then you can take this answer and if you would like to appeal with a lawyer) or you try your chance next year again

cheers
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Old 09.03.2015, 18:27
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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Thank you very much for your reply.
Yes, I did read that thread but this was posted back in 2011 and I understand that there were recent changes in Zurich Canton.
Does anyone else have some experience?
Do I have to have a B Permit for 5 years or is it enough to have 2 years with L and 3 years with B?
Also with regards to the language certificate for non EU (not American), A2 or B1?
Thank you!
I am Non EU, just got my C permit in Canton Zurich.
Your years on L permit will count, if your work contract was open-ended.
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Old 09.03.2015, 23:44
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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I am Non EU, just got my C permit in Canton Zurich.
Your years on L permit will count, if your work contract was open-ended.
Be very careful in making this kind of statements. Did you get this information explicitly (L counts provided open contract), or are you making some incorrect causal reasoning (it happens that your L was counted and your contract was open ended)?
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Old 10.03.2015, 09:28
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Be very careful in making this kind of statements. Did you get this information explicitly (L counts provided open contract), or are you making some incorrect causal reasoning (it happens that your L was counted and your contract was open ended)?
With an open-ended contract, my years on L permit as well as my study years before that counted towards 5 years on B permit, because Migrationsamt Kanton Zurich has internal regulations that specifically concerns this case.
Check chapter 5 of that regulation document here, it is in German though.

Back to the questions from OP:
Required language level is B1 in Kanton Zurich. This applies to your wife as well as your children.
The fact that your children are well integrated and speaks local language probably doesn't give you any advantage I am afraid.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.03.2015 at 05:23. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #8  
Old 10.03.2015, 12:51
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

Thank you Sansar for the useful link. I need clarity specifically about point 2 in section 5.2

Evidence that the applicant throughout the last five years in Switzerland
is pursued employment.

does this mean that both wife and husband should be working in the last 5 years? what happens if the husband is working for 5 years but the wife is working only for the last 3 years (out of 5 years of B).
basically, i would like to know if the criteria will be evaluated individually or for both the wife and husband together (meaning if one is not qualified for early C then the whole family is not qualified for early C).
Can anybody share some thoughts on this, specifically for Zurich canton?

Cheers
Happycreature
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Old 10.03.2015, 13:16
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

As I have applied as a single person, I am not 100% sure about this. It is always better to talk with Migrationsamt directly anyway.
But in the last paragraph of Section 5.1 the document specifically says that all family members above 12 years must have german on level A2 and must not have fullfilled one of the reasons to revocate the residence permit. Such reasons are listed in Ausländergesetz, Article 62.

Shortly, it is enough for the main permit holder to have 5 years on B and have at least B1 german level. All dependent permit holders must have german level on A2 and that should suffice
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Old 10.03.2015, 13:43
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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Back to the questions from OP:
Required language level is B1 in Kanton Zurich. This applies to your wife as well as your children.
The fact that your children are well integrated and speaks local language probably doesn't give you any advantage I am afraid.
I realize that I was wrong here about the level of German your wife needs to prove. The main permit holder needs to have B1 and all other dependent permit holders of the family who are over 12 years need to have german on at least A2.
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Old 11.03.2015, 16:55
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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Thank you Sansar for the useful link. I need clarity specifically about point 2 in section 5.2

Evidence that the applicant throughout the last five years in Switzerland
is pursued employment.

does this mean that both wife and husband should be working in the last 5 years? what happens if the husband is working for 5 years but the wife is working only for the last 3 years (out of 5 years of B).
basically, i would like to know if the criteria will be evaluated individually or for both the wife and husband together (meaning if one is not qualified for early C then the whole family is not qualified for early C).
Can anybody share some thoughts on this, specifically for Zurich canton?

Cheers
Happycreature
What kind of difference would this make? In the first instance you do not need to send any documents. Just apply, there is no cost anything else related to the application.
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Old 12.03.2015, 00:52
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My family also got the C recently. We had B since 5 years.

The requirements for German language:
  • B1 certificate for all adults
  • For children in school age: a letter from the school informing that the kind is integrated.

I suggest you to drop Migrationsamt an email. They could clarify this.

Before doing mine, I've contacted them and they pointed me to document:http://www.ma.zh.ch/internet/sicherh...ewilligung.pdf

The Item "5.2 - Erforderliche Dokumente" is the one.
Edited: I didn't notice the link was already given. Sorry.

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What kind of difference would this make? In the first instance you do not need to send any documents. Just apply, there is no cost anything else related to the application.
Actually I was requested to pay for this request. So, it costs money. Similar price to the regular B permit renewal.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 12.03.2015 at 05:24. Reason: merging successive posts
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  #13  
Old 21.03.2015, 15:23
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

Hi esp,
Thanks for the useful post. but in the document link you posted, it is not clear if one has to stay in the same gemainde for a certain period of time. we have always lived in the same gemainde for the last 5 years in zurich canton. but now we are planning to move house which is in adjacent gemainde to the current one but thecurrent and future gemainde are in canton zurich.we are planning to apply for early C next year and if thr application for C goes from the future gemainde, will it be rejected because we have to stayin the gemainde for some years like 3 or 5 years.
if anybody has clear information on this, i would really appreciate it.

cheers
happycreature
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Old 21.03.2015, 15:37
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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Hi esp,
Thanks for the useful post. but in the document link you posted, it is not clear if one has to stay in the same gemainde for a certain period of time. we have always lived in the same gemainde for the last 5 years in zurich canton. but now we are planning to move house which is in adjacent gemainde to the current one but thecurrent and future gemainde are in canton zurich.we are planning to apply for early C next year and if thr application for C goes from the future gemainde, will it be rejected because we have to stayin the gemainde for some years like 3 or 5 years.
if anybody has clear information on this, i would really appreciate it.

cheers
happycreature
No, that' shouldn't affect your application. It would for citizenship, but doesn't apply as far as I'm aware for getting an early C.
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Old 21.03.2015, 21:21
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

i have just sent my papers in and only needed A2 - as im from the EU.

i was told though that this rule actually unenforceable as would they expect a native German speaker to sit an A2 language exam also?
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Old 21.03.2015, 21:34
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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i have just sent my papers in and only needed A2 - as im from the EU.

i was told though that this rule actually unenforceable as would they expect a native German speaker to sit an A2 language exam also?
not if they are German or Austrian, actually regardless if they speak German or not: they get a C permit after 5 years.
if it were an Englishman that speaks fluent German, he might have to do the exam.
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Old 21.03.2015, 21:42
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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i have just sent my papers in and only needed A2 - as im from the EU.

i was told though that this rule actually unenforceable as would they expect a native German speaker to sit an A2 language exam also?
Certain countries may be exempt due to separate settlement agreements that Switzerland has made with them.

"Pursuant to settlement agreements and declarations of the Bundesrat nationals following countries can obtain a permanent residence permit after a regular and uninterrupted stay of five years in Switzerland:

Belgium, Germany, Denmark, France, Liechtenstein, Greece, Italy, Netherlands, Austria, Portugal and Spain."

It's in post number 9 in this thread:

New language requirement for EU, C Permit

Whether a Greek national for example would need to do the language test anyway I don't know.
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Old 23.03.2015, 12:13
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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No, that' shouldn't affect your application. It would for citizenship, but doesn't apply as far as I'm aware for getting an early C.

No, changing gemeinde does not impact C permit permission having recently been through the process - I changed both Kanton and Gemeinde last year - I was given the C when I had to renew the B at the new Gemeinde. In my case, I am a Non-EU but had a 5-year B, that was deemed sufficient for the C permit. I had flipped 2 Kantons during my 5 year stay in CH and hope to not switch Kantons anymore.

As far as Language, I can assume this varies from Kanton to Kanton - I am aware of the language requirement for Kanton Zurich as another poster noted, however, this is not true for Kanton Aargau as of last year per my experience - there was no request for language. Which his good because I have no language qualification.

Hope this helps.
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Old 23.03.2015, 17:21
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

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No, that' shouldn't affect your application. It would for citizenship, but doesn't apply as far as I'm aware for getting an early C.
Hi Medea,
Thanks for your answer. I only hear these type of confirmations on the forum but is there official documentation that says this will not be a problem. because i dont want to hear the news next year when i apply that i am not eligible for early C because i have moved to another gemainde. you may say to ask in the gemainde but my experience with the gemainde has always been that they dont know of such regulations around permits. all they know is to take your grey form, check if eveything is ok, stamp it and take the payment from you. later in a month or so, inform you that your permits have arrived. in my opinion, they have absolute zero knowledge about the rules around residence permits or what goes in Zurich migrationsamt.

Hi parkadam,
Thanks for the information.the process is quite different from Zurich. also when you say Non EU, it also depends on your nationality. but it looks like C permit is much easier to obtain in your canton than in Zurich. so there is no point for me to compare.

cheers
happycreature
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Old 23.03.2015, 20:10
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Re: Non EU applying for a C permit

For C permit, it does not matter if you have changed the Gemeinde or Kanton during those 5 years. I have changed from St.Gallen to Zurich and applied for C permit in Zurich and I got it.
I believe the same Gemeinde rule is only for Swiss citizenship. For citizenship you have to had lived in the same Gemeinde for the last 2 years before you apply.
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