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  #21  
Old 20.12.2015, 18:35
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Yes, I have read that.
My question is: can he simply NOT have a permit? i.e. not be officially living in Switzerland at all?
It is better to think of Swiss taxation as a mandatory joint tax return for couples, whether or not both are resident, or even present, in Switzerland. Switzerland has a wealth tax as well as an income tax, and (as Canada and the UK once did) imposes a tax on imputed rent of owned property. Because of the dependence on a wealth tax in lieu of heavier income and consumption taxes there can be effective double taxation: there is no tax credit in most other countries for this tax.

My grandfather, resident in Zürich, divorced my grandmother, resident in New York, for that sole reason, in the 1950s.

There are subsidiary issues of marital regime; perhaps Spanish law would be relevant. I am aware that Spanish law invokes not just domicile but vecindad civil. Try explaining that to a Swiss lawyer, much less a tax officer. The Switzerland-Spain tax convention governs which country gets to tax which income first (an issue that could be important on income from community property):
https://www.admin.ch/opc/fr/classifi...094/index.html (French version)
http://noticias.juridicas.com/base_d...csuizaedi.html (Spanish)

For the rest: your husband probably can be treated as a tourist in Switzerland, depending on facts. If he is relying on a European Health Insurance Card for urgent care he should also have travel insurance and the insurer should be made aware of your respective situations.

Others have said that the Swiss resident taxpayer of a divided couple was taxed as single. I haven't encountered that, but other than my grandfather's experience can only speak of Valais and Vaud. In Geneva (where I have also lived) I was tax exempt as a diplomat.

Child benefit has been mentioned. From recent discussion of EU law and from HMRC (the UK tax agency) correspondence with my son, it appears that you can claim either but not both countries' child allowances. In my son's case he specifically told the UK agency to cease paying benefit despite their opinion that he was still entitled, at least temporarily. (This pre-dates the termination of that right for those paying higher-rate UK income tax, something that ironically wouldn't apply to him anyway since his "higher earnings" were taxed only abroad: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20135813 )

Last edited by Caryl; 20.12.2015 at 18:47.
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  #22  
Old 20.12.2015, 19:32
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Dodgyken, do you know if the same principle of deducing the paid amount applies in case my husband moves from Switzerland to Hong Kong (kids move with him), however i stay here and spend some time in HK?
thanks a a lot
What's your nationality and who holds the main permit? If you're non-EU and have a dependent's permit you won't be able to stay here if he and the kids leave.
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  #23  
Old 20.12.2015, 19:39
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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What's your nationality and who holds the main permit? If you're non-EU and have a dependent's permit you won't be able to stay here if he and the kids leave.
Medea Guy, we know from this forum & Isaac Brock that you're better than that. Start from the beginning: "I am a Spanish national". And yes, her English is perfect. But so is that of all the Puerto Ricans in today's NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/us...oney-debt.html (And pardon me for the irrelevance: as a retiree on the AVS that's my stock in trade.)

And congratulations on your CLN. Gee, I thought everybody in Switzerland (except my Grisons goat-herder relatives, who aren't American anyway) would be "covered expatriates"). (And let me say that their descendants include an American opera singer and a former American US Air Force Officer (she being also a graduate of MIT). What luck that their grandfather, youngest of 12 in the mountains, emigrated.)

I never "groan" anybody. But your posting does deserve that...
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Old 20.12.2015, 19:43
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

Sorry, am I misreading this? If you are married and your spouse isn't a resident, no permit you still have to claim their income on your swiss tax return?

I am separated but not legally yet and was unaware of this, maybe I read it wrong?
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  #25  
Old 20.12.2015, 19:49
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

You best get professional advice asap. If you are still legally married, you still have to pay tax as a couple, it seems.
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  #26  
Old 20.12.2015, 19:50
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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You best get professional advice asap. If you are still legally married, you still have to pay tax as a couple, it seems.
great, nice end to the week actually feel more like
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  #27  
Old 20.12.2015, 19:54
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Sorry, am I misreading this? If you are married and your spouse isn't a resident, no permit you still have to claim their income on your swiss tax return?

I am separated but not legally yet and was unaware of this, maybe I read it wrong?
That's the principle of mandatory joint tax returns. But I cannot speak for legal separation less than divorce -- much less informal separation. I speak to tax theory and tax law, especially conflict of laws: but so many facts are relevant to taxation in a country and province that it is really worth your while to talk to someone who, if s/he is wrong, will be severely punished.

This is the work of a tax advisor who has errors & omissions insurance. My policy lapsed when I retired. While members of this forum try to be helpful, you ought not to rely on volunteers for legal advice that, if wrong, could cost you dearly. Ask a "mandataire" (a tax accountant, sorry I don't know the German) or call the cantonal tax office and ask to speak to their international expert. (I met with the expert in Vevey and he was super helpful. Never mind that they screwed up my assessment for 2014 and when I appealed it was reduced by half. That guy was long gone by the time of the assessment, anyway.)
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  #28  
Old 20.12.2015, 20:16
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Medea Guy, we know from this forum & Isaac Brock that you're better than that. Start from the beginning: "I am a Spanish national". And yes, her English is perfect. But so is that of all the Puerto Ricans in today's NYT article: http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/20/us...oney-debt.html (And pardon me for the irrelevance: as a retiree on the AVS that's my stock in trade.)

And congratulations on your CLN. Gee, I thought everybody in Switzerland (except my Grisons goat-herder relatives, who aren't American anyway) would be "covered expatriates"). (And let me say that their descendants include an American opera singer and a former American US Air Force Officer (she being also a graduate of MIT). What luck that their grandfather, youngest of 12 in the mountains, emigrated.)

I never "groan" anybody. But your posting does deserve that...
I was actually asking mariana.grigorian that question Caryl which is why I quoted her post. And I ain't a guy.
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  #29  
Old 20.12.2015, 20:45
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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I was actually asking mariana.grigorian that question Caryl which is why I quoted her post. And I ain't a guy.
Sorry. I'm old. But why do people interject in ongoing threads with their own issues when a new thread would maybe attract needed expertise?

On the other point, now we know.
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Old 20.12.2015, 20:55
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Sorry. I'm old. But why do people interject in ongoing threads with their own issues when a new thread would maybe attract needed expertise?

On the other point, now we know.
Because it's basically the same question re tax, just slightly different circumstances. See post 20. But as we don't know mariana.grigorian's nationality or permit status the answers for her may be different from the ones previously given. Which is why I asked nationality/permit status.

And I'm old too so that's no excuse. In fact I'm older today than I was yesterday. Happy birthday to me.
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  #31  
Old 20.12.2015, 21:01
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

And Bonne Fête and Joyeux Noël from me

But really, for anyone with an 'unusual' tax situation, do NOT rely on EF or the internet- and get specialist advice asap. The Tax Office can back date any tax due for many years, and 'oh I just thought that...' or 'sorry, I was not aware that ...' ain't going to cut it with them.
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Old 20.12.2015, 21:13
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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And Bonne Fête and Joyeux Noël from me

But really, for anyone with an 'unusual' tax situation, do NOT rely on EF or the internet- and get specialist advice asap. The Tax Office can back date any tax due for many years, and 'oh I just thought that...' or 'sorry, I was not aware that ...' ain't going to cut it with them.
You remind me of FATCA, PFIC, 5471, 3520 and all the rest. I remember speaking with an Inland Revenue guy (as they then were) a decade or more ago and having him tell me that outside of the USA, tax agents weren't "gangbusters".

Maybe that's not true anymore. These guys meet each other at conventions. Even.
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Old 20.12.2015, 21:24
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Because it's basically the same question re tax, just slightly different circumstances.
Circumstances, circumstances.

One of my many children, born out of (our) ignorance in New York when we were sort of teenagers (not exactly but you get the point) managed to forfeit his UK ILR for carelessness.

But he got to talking with the Swiss Consul General in San Francisco who told him (in probably better English than my son & heir could manage) "But, hey, you could be Swiss."

And indeed he, and his many progeny (but fewer than I have) are now Swiss.

Naturalisation facilitée.

You never know. (Hey, it helps to speak a Swiss language and not to be poor. My guy works in finance.)
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  #34  
Old 20.12.2015, 22:38
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Sorry, am I misreading this? If you are married and your spouse isn't a resident, no permit you still have to claim their income on your swiss tax return?

I am separated but not legally yet and was unaware of this, maybe I read it wrong?
If you don't live in CH your not liable to taxes in CH end of story, even if married to someone who does live here.
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Old 20.12.2015, 22:53
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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If you don't live in CH your not liable to taxes in CH end of story, even if married to someone who does live here.
But it sounds I have to put his income on my taxes, you do not agree?
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Old 20.12.2015, 23:01
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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But it sounds I have to put his income on my taxes, you do not agree?
Of course not if he does not live here & without a B permit or better, he would be here illegally
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Old 20.12.2015, 23:05
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Re: Moving to Switzerland, uncertain about legal/tax situation with my husband

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Of course not if he does not live here & without a B permit or better, he would be here illegally
hmmm I wonder why there is debate on it? Why do some say you DO pay tax on the other person's income even if they dont live here. I guess oddly I expected it black or what, silly me!
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