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Old 30.05.2015, 09:01
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Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to Euro

Couple of years ago a slight mistake during visa application process costed me dearly. I was given a notice of entry ban from Switzerland and Schenegen area. The reason cited for ban was overstay without permit.

Now that the date of entry ban date has finally passed, I am thinking if I should again try to get a visa for travel or work in Switzerland or Schengen country. But before I proceed, I still have lot of unanswered questions
  • How do I confirm if entry ban has expired? Should I approach Switzerland to confirm? Are their any chances that Switzerland may extend the entry ban when I make an inquiry with them?
  • Will I ever be able to get a travel or work permit for Switzerland?
  • What are the chances of VISA application getting rejected when applying for travel or work in Schengen countries even though the entry ban has expired ?
  • I heard that chances of visa rejection may be lesser in EU countries which are still integrating SIS Schengen Information System. But which are these countries?

Any suggestions on how to approach getting a travel or work visa for a Schengen country would be great!!
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Old 30.05.2015, 09:20
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

It will be very difficult and they will look at your application very closely.

I guess a lot also depends from where you come from too
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Old 30.05.2015, 21:42
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

Firstly you should already know a) when the offence was committed and b) how long your ban was for. That tells you whether it's expired or not - as should any documents you were given at the time.

A ban won't be extended, but may very well impact on future travel or work permit applications throughout Europe as the system is integrated to cover the entire Schengen Area as a ban - rather than a warning or fine - means the offence was considered quite serious.

You cannot work in Switzerland unless a Swiss employer applies for a permit on your behalf and you would need to disclose the ban info to help facilitate any application. Not disclosing it would only ruin any possibility of approval of the permit. The criteria for the hiring of non-EU nationals is outlined here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...zulassung.html

Nor can you work in any other EU country without meeting their non-EU hiring rules which will be similar to Switzerland's I imagine.
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Old 31.05.2015, 19:21
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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Firstly you should already know a) when the offence was committed and b) how long your ban was for. That tells you whether it's expired or not - as should any documents you were given at the time.
As I already explained earlier the reason for ban - overstay. While my old L-permit was about to expire, my new employer applied for new permit. I waited for the permit application to be approved and during this time my L-permit expired. I got get an approval to start work but somehow Bern canton wasn't willing to give me a permit. My new employer asked me to start working and so i did. And I did got paid salary. I waited for permit for another 4 months before which I decided to quit job and leave the country because canton just won't give me a permit and my small company wasn't willing to deal with immigration anymore. Once I reached my home country, after few months I received a notification of entry ban - this was a big shock for me! They explained in letter that I should have left Switzerland when my last permit was about to expire. The mistake I made was I never inquired if it was legal to stay while new permit application was in process. This was not a permit extension application but a fresh application. So I should have left country and waited for new permit in my home country which I didn't. So overall, it was a silly but a very costly mistake. Technically speaking it was an offence as per law, but factually I never overstayed deliberately. I wanted to make an appeal against the ban decision but didn't as many Swiss lawyers told me that it was futile and wastage of money as entry ban was very normal awarded punishment for overstay between 3-6 months. And so, I simply waited for few years - 2 to be exact - for the entry ban to expire!

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A ban won't be extended, but may very well impact on future travel or work permit applications throughout Europe as the system is integrated to cover the entire Schengen Area as a ban - rather than a warning or fine - means the offence was considered quite serious.
Thats great. I know about SIS II and understand about the impact. Well, I never committed any criminal offence, so I cant say about seriousness. But definitely I know that there are chances that my Visa application to EU/Switzerland may be rejected. Thats what I want to avoid!!

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You cannot work in Switzerland unless a Swiss employer applies for a permit on your behalf and you would need to disclose the ban info to help facilitate any application. Not disclosing it would only ruin any possibility of approval of the permit. The criteria for the hiring of non-EU nationals is outlined here:

https://www.bfm.admin.ch/bfm/en/home...zulassung.html

Nor can you work in any other EU country without meeting their non-EU hiring rules which will be similar to Switzerland's I imagine.
Thank you for the insight about need for disclosing the entry ban info. I will definitely do that. Also, I do know about that hiring rules in Switzerland and somewhat about EU(Germany). Getting someone to hire me from EU or Switzerland is definitely possible. I have niche and in-demand skills. So I do get emails and phone calls for jobs from Switzerland or EU but always had to turn them down since I was waiting for entry ban to expire. Now that it has expired, I want to try gain.

But before I do that, I want good peace of advice from people who would have been in a similar situation and who made it back to EU/Swiss after entry ban expiry.

I heard that UK/Ireland still donot follow SIS system. Does it make sense to find a job and try to get work Visa there ?
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Old 31.05.2015, 19:46
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

Possibly, though you'd still need a Schengen visa to visit most parts of Europe so would still likely have trouble getting one. The UK only use SIS for law enforcement co-operation and Ireland is getting ready to do the same.

http://ec.europa.eu/dgs/home-affairs...m/index_en.htm
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Old 31.05.2015, 19:46
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

I think your best bet is to just try. I doubt you'll get a definitive answer here and that these things vary by case.

I'd expect a UK visa application to also ask about previous visa restrictions or refusals.
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Old 31.05.2015, 21:53
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

The reason for your overstay is virtually irrelevant. If you were in a hospital and could prove it, this may give a mitigating circumstance, but it would need to be something like this to justify an overstay
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Old 31.05.2015, 23:42
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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I'd expect a UK visa application to also ask about previous visa restrictions or refusals.
They do -the question goes something along the lines of "Have you been refused visa/entry to any country, including the UK?"
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Old 01.06.2015, 01:02
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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I heard that UK/Ireland still donot follow SIS system. Does it make sense to find a job and try to get work Visa there ?
Although not part of Schengen they have access to the system. And given that you overstayed and worked illegally in the Schengen area, I doubt you'll find any country enthusiastic about granting you a work permit.
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Old 03.06.2015, 22:34
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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The reason for your overstay is virtually irrelevant. If you were in a hospital and could prove it, this may give a mitigating circumstance, but it would need to be something like this to justify an overstay
That's true. Overtstay is illegal no matter for what reason. Although using excuse of sickness does entice me, but I think presenting forged excuses could land me in deeper trouble. I dont think I can afford to that.
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Old 03.06.2015, 22:38
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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Although not part of Schengen they have access to the system. And given that you overstayed and worked illegally in the Schengen area, I doubt you'll find any country enthusiastic about granting you a work permit.
Well, I only overstayed in Switzerland and that's not Schengen area ?? Although entry ban was extended to it.

And I did get a US B1/B2 business-travel visa last year and traveled to US. So its not true that I will not find any country who is ready to give me a Visa. Travel ban is a usual punishment for overstays, but it does not make me criminal that a foreign country needs to be wary of!
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Old 03.06.2015, 22:46
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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Well, I only overstayed in Switzerland and that's not Schengen area ?? Although entry ban was extended to it.

And I did get a US B1/B2 business-travel visa last year and traveled to US. So its not true that I will not find any country who is ready to give me a Visa. Travel ban is a usual punishment for overstays, but I am certainly not a criminal that a foreign country needs to be wary of!
Switzerland is part of the Schengen Area so a ban issued here will apply to the entire area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
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Old 03.06.2015, 22:47
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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I think your best bet is to just try. I doubt you'll get a definitive answer here and that these things vary by case.

I'd expect a UK visa application to also ask about previous visa restrictions or refusals.
I was thinking so too. Trying is the only definite way of knowing. So far on englishforum, there are no definite answers to my questions!

I don't recall how I handled restriction/refusal questions in my US Visa application. I will have a relook at my application copy.
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Old 03.06.2015, 22:51
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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Switzerland is part of the Schengen Area so a ban issued here will apply to the entire area.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schengen_Area
Thanks for correcting me!
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Old 03.06.2015, 23:17
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

Here is one idea that comes off my head.

What about applying to a Schengen country for a tourist visa first ? I thinking maybe I should apply to a Schengen country which gets least tourist and is poorest and most lax in following Visa rules. But which country Schengen state is that ?

If I secure a valid Schengen VISA once, doesn't it solve the looming visa rejection problem once and for all ?
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Old 04.06.2015, 08:42
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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Here is one idea that comes off my head.

What about applying to a Schengen country for a tourist visa first ? I thinking maybe I should apply to a Schengen country which gets least tourist and is poorest and most lax in following Visa rules. But which country Schengen state is that ?

If I secure a valid Schengen VISA once, doesn't it solve the looming visa rejection problem once and for all ?
None of them.

"The SIS is in operation in all EU Member States and Associated Countries that are part of the Schengen Area. Special conditions exist for EU Member States that are not part of the Schengen Area.

EU Member States that are part of the Schengen Area
The Schengen Area encompasses most EU Member States, except for Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Ireland, Romania and the United Kingdom. The 22 EU Member States that are part of the Schengen Area fully operate the SIS.

Associated Countries that are part of the Schengen Area
Four Associated Countries that are part of the Schengen Area (Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland) fully operate the SIS."
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Old 04.06.2015, 14:27
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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Here is one idea that comes off my head.

What about applying to a Schengen country for a tourist visa first ? I thinking maybe I should apply to a Schengen country which gets least tourist and is poorest and most lax in following Visa rules. But which country Schengen state is that ?

If I secure a valid Schengen VISA once, doesn't it solve the looming visa rejection problem once and for all ?
Seems like some people got annoyed. But in the groans lies the answer !
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Old 04.06.2015, 14:29
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

Italy is a ridiculous country to get in. First get into Europe by flying in Romania, Croatia, (you name it), etc. Then drive to Italy, get any kind of job and apply for the permesso di soggiorno. If you are successful, then ask for a "titolo di viaggio per stranieri. Job done!
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Old 04.06.2015, 14:38
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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None of them.

"The SIS is in operation in all EU Member States and Associated Countries that are part of the Schengen Area. Special conditions exist for EU Member States that are not part of the Schengen Area.

EU Member States that are part of the Schengen Area
The Schengen Area encompasses most EU Member States, except for Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, Ireland, Romania and the United Kingdom. The 22 EU Member States that are part of the Schengen Area fully operate the SIS.

Associated Countries that are part of the Schengen Area
Four Associated Countries that are part of the Schengen Area (Switzerland, Norway, Liechtenstein and Iceland) fully operate the SIS."
Well, that's hardly the answer to the question I asked even if the question was was not palpable to some users on this forum. In fact your answer seems like a deliberate discouragement.

Anyways, after lot of search and reading I now know how and from which EU country I can get a Visa. And I am going to get it - LEGALLY!!
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Old 04.06.2015, 14:46
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Re: Entry ban to Switzerland and Schenegen expired - Can I try again to come back to

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... So far on englishforum, there are no definite answers to my questions!...
Whatever else would you expect? You think we're all experts in immigration law?
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