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  #21  
Old 16.06.2015, 21:18
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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I understand perfectly why one would not want to go to a military service. I don't judge, no problem. However, becoming Swiss means to adhere to the national identity as it is built by the national (cantonal and federal) community. To reject military service does mean that you disagree with one of the foundation of the Swiss collective self-understanding as a country.

So in your case, I'd say that you have to assess for yourself how important it is to you as a citizen, not to do military service. If it is the core of your ethical understanding, then Swiss citizenship is in contradiction with it as it stands today. If you see it as a political disagreement that does not question your identification with Switzerland as a nation, then do become Swiss, do the military service, and then engage in the groups of other Swiss citizens who want to change this understanding of the place of the army in the country.
Given that only about half of the male population and almost none of the female currently do military service then according to your logic most of the current young population disagree with this self-understanding.

Or you're spouting SVP rubbish.
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  #22  
Old 16.06.2015, 21:38
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

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If you leave Switzerland,you do not have to complete it, but may have to pay a 2% tax instead.
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FTFY.

Tom
My husband didn't have to pay. He never mentioned it and no one ever asked for it.
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  #23  
Old 16.06.2015, 21:42
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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Not necessarily. They could be foreigners who were legally settled in the UK at the time.

"If you were born on or after 1 January 1983, you’ll be a British citizen if your mother or father was either:
  • a British citizen when you were born
  • ‘settled’ in the UK when you were born
‘Legally settled’ means they had the right to live permanently in the UK (also known as ‘indefinite leave to remain’)."

Always worth checking if he does decide not to go for Swiss citizenship.
All well and good, but little to do with acquiring Swiss citizenship.
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  #24  
Old 17.06.2015, 17:44
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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Given that only about half of the male population and almost none of the female currently do military service then according to your logic most of the current young population disagree with this self-understanding.

Or you're spouting SVP rubbish.

@ Faltrad if you want to debate this how about openly on here rather than by red rep. The roughly 50% of men not doing military service is accurate as of a couple of years ago (I think it has gone down from just over to just under recently). As is the comment about almost no women.


The SVP are the main party to produce your line about it being part of the Swiss national identity.


So what is inaccurate?
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  #25  
Old 17.06.2015, 18:01
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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@ Faltrad if you want to debate this how about openly on here rather than by red rep. The roughly 50% of men not doing military service is accurate as of a couple of years ago (I think it has gone down from just over to just under recently). As is the comment about almost no women.


The SVP are the main party to produce your line about it being part of the Swiss national identity.


So what is inaccurate?
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...pe/ch-army.htm a little higher... 62% suitable...
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  #26  
Old 17.06.2015, 18:40
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

military service would be bonus: time off work and kinda like a free gym membership and social club in one.
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  #27  
Old 17.06.2015, 18:45
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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...just checked and seems I was more out-of-date than I thought...2009 the figure reached a peak (or is that trough) with 51.5%.


Either way doesn't invalidate my statement.
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  #28  
Old 17.06.2015, 19:06
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

Military service can give you a driving license for various vehicles too, not to be sneezed at. Admittedly an annoying way but there you go.

You're 16. I'd go for it, you get Schengen area employment, and when traveling it can help. I didn't but that's because military service was for just about all in 1995. Just don't do what so many idiot Swiss tourists have done and decide to visit a war zone, or any zone where kidnapping/hostage taking is a national sport. We don't need more citizens of that kind .
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  #29  
Old 17.06.2015, 19:37
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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However, becoming Swiss means to adhere to the national identity as it is built by the national (cantonal and federal) community.
Citizenship is not nationality (while might be equal in the law). Even if one "becomes Swiss" in one's eyes, other Swiss might think otherwise :-) Therefore I'm supposing both the rights and obligations, while the same on paper, may work out differently in practice.
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  #30  
Old 17.06.2015, 19:51
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

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hello english forum in switzerland,
i am a 16 year old male living in lugano (ti). In a month i will be elegible for swiss citizenship. I currently have us citizenship and was born in scotland. I am considering pros and cons of acquiring swiss citizenship. After hearing about the mandatory military training (which can last up to 6 months!) i have been slightly discouraged.

Btw i currently attend liceo and have plans to attend ethz or epfl after liceo.
I do not plan on living/working in switzerland after i finish my studies (i will probably move back to us or move to canada).



no !
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  #31  
Old 17.06.2015, 20:07
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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I understand perfectly why one would not want to go to a military service. I don't judge, no problem. However, becoming Swiss means to adhere to the national identity as it is built by the national (cantonal and federal) community. To reject military service does mean that you disagree with one of the foundation of the Swiss collective self-understanding as a country.




Right on ,high marks for Faltrand

So in your case, I'd say that you have to assess for yourself how important it is to you as a citizen, not to do military service. If it is the core of your ethical understanding, then Swiss citizenship is in contradiction with it as it stands today. If you see it as a political disagreement that does not question your identification with Switzerland as a nation, then do become Swiss, do the military service, and then engage in the groups of other Swiss citizens who want to change this understanding of the place of the army in the country.
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Given that only about half of the male population and almost none of the female currently do military service then according to your logic most of the current young population disagree with this self-understanding.

Or you're spouting SVP rubbish.
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@ Faltrad if you want to debate this how about openly on here rather than by red rep. The roughly 50% of men not doing military service is accurate as of a couple of years ago (I think it has gone down from just over to just under recently). As is the comment about almost no women.


The SVP are the main party to produce your line about it being part of the Swiss national identity.


So what is inaccurate?

Noting to debate here Faltrand is right
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  #32  
Old 17.06.2015, 22:51
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

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Military service can give you a driving license for various vehicles too, not to be sneezed at. Admittedly an annoying way but there you go.

You're 16. I'd go for it, you get Schengen area employment, and when traveling it can help.
Absolutely. You would be totally mad not to. It is the perfect excuse to take time off and chill into a different mindset. Friends of friends have expressed an interest in flying and become fighter pilots, transport enthusiasts have been tank commanders. No joke! Later in life you will have to pay big $$$ for that kind of fun. Plus you get a free machine gun to take home. Where is the catch??? You get to pay less tax!!! Finally, your brain is still maturing, your intellectual capacity is expanding. Time spent in the military gives you a biological advantage over those who rush to finish Uni as young as possible. You are going to be more relaxed, more hooked into all aspects of life. You might well live longer as a result.
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  #33  
Old 18.06.2015, 00:37
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

What you don't like most seems the fact of "losing" the year, but if you do everything else on time you will finish on par, many people that don't do the military lose a year somewhere anyway (change of heart, gap year traveling, repeat a year, simply don't find a job, etc.). Also it's not lost you can use it for personal growth, just have to think of something, you will have the money from military that can pay for it, a semester in australia is all the rage atm but you already know english, maybe german or french gap year, you have years to think about it anyway. A year seems a lot at 16 but after 20 you forget how many years you have.
Btw military is not that bad, you meet a lot of people from different backgrounds, travel around switzerland, get paid and have your own gun (and maybe a new hobby).
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  #34  
Old 18.06.2015, 20:33
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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Citizenship is not nationality (while might be equal in the law). Even if one "becomes Swiss" in one's eyes, other Swiss might think otherwise :-) Therefore I'm supposing both the rights and obligations, while the same on paper, may work out differently in practice.
That's a bizarre statement (legally incorrect) but I think I know what you mean. Despite centuries of Swiss ancestry I can recall sitting next to a senior Swiss jurist at a dinner in Lausanne in the late 1990s when he said to me (we were speaking French) that nobody could be a "real Swiss" unless he spoke Swiss German.

OK, my grandfather's friend, born a Czech, told me she could never have succeeded as a hairdresser in Zug if she hadn't learned fluent Swiss German.

On the other hand, my kids' teacher in Geneva told them not to fret about German (never mind Swiss German) since they speak English. http://uniset.ca/naty/hebdo_allemand.htm

My mom spoke Swiss German as it was spoken pre-WW I, never mind WW II. But she was recognised as native Swiss, with the inevitable smiles for those who recognised her dialect and her old-fashioned slang, learned from her mom.

On the other hand, money talks. Not a few Swiss (including my Swiss dentist) grew up abroad and came back. Switzerland was, pre WW-II, a country of emigration.

Interesting to look at the Swiss Benevolent Society (USA) statistics.
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  #35  
Old 18.06.2015, 22:43
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

Do the military stint. You are not going to have to dodge bullets and learning how to handle a gun which may come in handy if you are going stateside. Belive me after 3 months you will be able to load a gun, with mittens on in the dark.
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  #36  
Old 18.06.2015, 22:49
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

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Hello English Forum in Switzerland,
I am a 16 year old male living in Lugano (TI). In a month I will be elegible for Swiss citizenship. .... (I will probably move back to US or move to Canada).
Based on this alone, why bother with the Swiss passport?
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  #37  
Old 23.06.2015, 12:59
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Re: Swiss Citizenship [should I apply?]

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Based on this alone, why bother with the Swiss passport?
Increased job opportunity, the fact that I spent 6 of the most important years of my life here and I feel pretty damn Swiss now. After reading these comments about Swiss military service it seems like a good opportunity for personal growth and potentially even a rite of passage from boy to man.

Also I can avoid the whole situation that went down in the film "The Terminal" with dual citizenship.
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  #38  
Old 23.06.2015, 14:16
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Re: Swiss Citizenship

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Less likely since 1983 following the British Nationality Act 1981, which based on age applies as of the OPs birth.
Well the Govt. backtracked on that quick during the Falkland war so they might make an exception for Scotland as well if the "Argies" land in Stornaway.
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