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Old 17.06.2015, 10:06
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Hey everyone, hope someone can help me. I am an EU national and applied two months ago for a residency permit in the kanton of Thurgau as a dependent of my partner who is German and received his B permit already. He has a permanent job in Switzerland and I was expecting to be accepted and to then apply for position myself once I had my permit.

I received a registered letter today which appears to be a refusal to grant a permit based on my partner's not earning enough for two people. We both have health insurance and sent in the relevant papers for that. He called the office in Frauenfeld and they said I need to find a position of at least 50%, and they have given me only three weeks to do so basically.

I don't understand. As an EU national I thought I had a right to live in Switzerland and look for work. Since I am here only since April I didn't expect to be first refused, and then also given three weeks notice to find work to show I can support myself adequately.

Appreciate any advice here! Thanks.

Just to add that I worked in Germany before moving here but have not worked in Switzerland previously.

Last edited by 3Wishes; 17.06.2015 at 14:51. Reason: merging consecutive posts
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  #2  
Old 17.06.2015, 11:16
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

What is your problem? Just get a job.
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Old 17.06.2015, 11:26
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

Get a job or apply for a job seekers permit. You don't need a dependant permit first to get a job.

If they only give you 3 weeks. Then leave for a few days, come back as a tourist for 3 months, then apply for job seeker L permit for 3 months, hopefully by then you'll have found a job and can get a B permit.
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  #4  
Old 17.06.2015, 11:34
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

Basically the agreement between the EU and Switzerland allows EU citizens the right to live and work in Switzerland. You can come to Switzerland for a limited time (I think 90 days) to look for work, but after that you have to leave if you haven't found anything.
It's not an automatic residency right.
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Old 17.06.2015, 11:34
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

as a EU citizen, you can stay in CH for three months without providing any justification. As there are no borders, no body really cares whether you really did leave the country every three months or not. Just apply for jobs until you get one and then you will have a proper permit.
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Old 17.06.2015, 13:11
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

Yes, you did it the wrong way around I'm afraid. You should have applied for a job seeker's permit for 3 months, assuming you have the funds to support yourself that long. If you didn't find a job then you could apply for an L permit for another 3 months, funds permitting. Turning up as a dependent - which, as far as the Swiss are concerned, you aren't if you're not married to your partner or in a registered same sex partnership - was entirely the wrong way to go about it. The Swiss recently voted to limit immigration from the EU and while how they're going to do that is still to be worked out, they'll look for any excuse not to let you in if they can. So either you yourself need to provide proof your have enough money to live on or your partner needs to earn enough for you both.

As Island Monkey says, leave within the 3 week limit if you haven't found work by then, and then return as a tourist and start looking again. Whatever you do, don't register until you find a job. Oh, and cancel your health insurance - as you're not resident you aren't entitled to it anyway.
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Old 17.06.2015, 14:32
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

Firstly, thanks everyone! I am of course going to look for a job - we have enough to live on, that isn't an issue and I've been studying (self-taught) so I was just counting on the permit to make it easier to find work if I had a resident/work permit to show to potential employers. Now I see that was a waste of time.

Medea, just on a couple of points you made, and thank you for such a helpful response:
My partner registered me in my local town's office when we first applied for the permits; they have since even sent me a tax bill to pay towards fire services. We can manage but my finances probably wouldn't convince them.
Should I de-register as soon as possible do you think and will that be a straight forward case of just going in and saying I now live elsewhere? They required me to have health insurance in order to make my application for this dependent permit which is why we sorted it out immediately. I'm insured since mid of May. I hope I can cancel without being stung?

I will take yours and Island Monkey's advice and leave within the 3 weeks if necessary and then come back as a tourist but of course I will be doing my best to get a job before then. I just want to be prepared in the event that it takes longer. So when I return as a tourist I will hold of re-registering until I find a job. Does that sound ok?

Thanks so much for the brilliant advice. I wish I had asked here before I set the thing in motion but made mistake to make assumptions.
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Old 17.06.2015, 15:48
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

As an EU national it's not really a problem getting a permit once you have an employment contract and it's the same for getting a job in the first place. Because of the Free Movement Agreement EU nationals have the same work priority as Swiss nationals so not having a permit yet shouldn't be a problem. If you can land a job quickly then that should solve all the problems because you just need to take the signed contract to the office to show them you now have a job that pays enough for you to live on.

Did you show the admin office your financial situation independent of your partner's? They might take the two together as being enough - again the problem of applying as his dependent you see. But they might accept your combined resources, check with them and find out if you haven't already.

Deregistering shouldn't be a problem either, you just need to tell them you're leaving and on what date and they'll issue you with documentation which you can then use to cancel things like insurances, mobile phone contracts, etc.

If you're here as a tourist you can't register - otherwise you become a resident and lose the tourist status.
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Old 17.06.2015, 16:16
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

Thanks again. I'm much more at ease about it knowing all of this.

Just regards health insurance, do you think I can have my previous monthly premium return, given it was invalid to me without the residence permit?

I thought it was required to even make an application as the office insisted on having proof of it to add to my document bundle for the initial application which led me to believe I had to have it from the off - and not after three months.
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Old 17.06.2015, 16:27
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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Thanks again. I'm much more at ease about it knowing all of this.

Just regards health insurance, do you think I can have my previous monthly premium return, given it was invalid to me without the residence permit?

I thought it was required to even make an application as the office insisted on having proof of it to add to my document bundle for the initial application which led me to believe I had to have it from the off - and not after three months.
You don't have to have health insurance to apply for the permit. You must just get it when your permit is approved and it will be back dated to the date your permit is issued from.

You will need a document from the Gemeinde to show you are not resident in order to cancel your insurance and maybe claim money back.
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Old 17.06.2015, 16:48
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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You don't have to have health insurance to apply for the permit. You must just get it when your permit is approved and it will be back dated to the date your permit is issued from.

You will need a document from the Gemeinde to show you are not resident in order to cancel your insurance and maybe claim money back.
It is needed for dependent style resident permits. They insisted on my having health insurance when they asked me for further documentation after my initial application. They also asked for a copy of my partner's permanent contract as part of that further documentation request so I think it is part of proving you have the financial and other means to look after yourself. I only wish the representative we spoke to in our local health insurance office would have explained that it would not be valid until I had my residence permit. I thought it was valid on registration.

Last edited by swissdip; 17.06.2015 at 17:07.
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Old 17.06.2015, 17:12
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

I'm sorry to highjack your thread, but a small question:

How much was your SO getting that were deemed "not adequate" to support both?

Thanks!
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Old 17.06.2015, 17:35
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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I'm sorry to highjack your thread, but a small question:

How much was your SO getting that were deemed "not adequate" to support both?

Thanks!
electrique, the general figure to work to is CHF100 a day for one person. So around 3,000 a month. You could probably halve that for the second person, but you'd still be looking at 4,500 a month for two people.
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Old 17.06.2015, 17:56
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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I'm sorry to highjack your thread, but a small question:

How much was your SO getting that were deemed "not adequate" to support both?

Thanks!
I wasn't going to say so but I will. Your question isn't 'small' or casual in any way, in fact it is normally taboo in polite company to ask it.

It might be useful for you to learn the etiquette - particularly when Swiss people go out of their way NOT to just casually disclose their salary. If you have looked at the job advertisements here, and you may well have, you will see that salaries are rarely disclosed on the internet. You do it in person.

Care to disclose the salary you are due to earn in September on your upcoming year's contract in Zurich? Have you a partner to take into account? Also, can you please prove you will be earning the figure you supply (in the same spirit as your having an approximate upper threshold for my partner's salary?)

Didn't think so...

Last edited by swissdip; 17.06.2015 at 18:12.
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Old 17.06.2015, 18:12
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

I would never ask this question to anyone in person. I'm well aware of the rules of politeness and not being nosey. I only did so because of your anonymity status.

Also, I've seen several times a salary being disclosed on the EF from people asking for help (ie for budgeting purposes, to decide whether to relocate, to check if they are being offered a good package, etc.). Just search for "salary" in the search pane.

However, I do apologise for highjacking your thread.

Good luck with your problems.
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Old 17.06.2015, 18:14
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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I wasn't going to say so but I will. Your question isn't 'small' or casual in any way, in fact it is normally taboo in polite company to ask it.

It might be useful for you to learn the etiquette - particularly when Swiss people go out of their way NOT to just casually disclose their salary. If you have looked at the job advertisements here, and you may well have, you will see that salaries are rarely disclosed on the internet. You do it in person.

Care to disclose the salary you are due to earn in September on your upcoming year's contract in Zurich? Have you a partner to take into account? Also, can you please prove you will be earning the figure you supply (in the same spirit as your having a definite upper threshold for my partner's salary?)

Didn't think so...
It might not be polite to ask someone about money....

.... but a frequent question asked on this forum is "how much money do we need to get a dependant permit/job seeker permit" and no one ever seems to know.

So obviously if you don't want to disclose that info that is absolutely fine. However if anyone ever had that info and feels happy to share that info, it is quite useful.
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Old 17.06.2015, 18:18
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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I wasn't going to say so but I will. Your question isn't 'small' or casual in any way, in fact it is normally taboo in polite company to ask it.

It might be useful for you to learn the etiquette - particularly when Swiss people go out of their way NOT to just casually disclose their salary. If you have looked at the job advertisements here, and you may well have, you will see that salaries are rarely disclosed on the internet. You do it in person.

Care to disclose the salary you are due to earn in September on your upcoming year's contract in Zurich? Have you a partner to take into account? Also, can you please prove you will be earning the figure you supply (in the same spirit as your having an approximate upper threshold for my partner's salary?)

Didn't think so...
I saw you edited your post too late. You can find what you asked for in this post: Calculating the real net salary

Also, in the same post you will find why I asked that question. It was not because I was nosey, I just wanted to compare with my case.

I do not want to get into an online fight, there is no use (and the moderators wouldn't like it). I already apologised.
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Old 19.06.2015, 14:42
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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I saw you edited your post too late. You can find what you asked for in this post: Calculating the real net salary

Also, in the same post you will find why I asked that question. It was not because I was nosey, I just wanted to compare with my case.

I do not want to get into an online fight, there is no use (and the moderators wouldn't like it). I already apologised.
I found it intrusive, that is all. I would have preferred you to open your own thread to ask such a question which I think is fair. Anyway thanks for explaining your motives at least, and for the link

A colleague of my partner told him the same thing happened to him and his girlfriend. The figure they earn is just under 5k a month so clearly they are looking to seem 7500 a month minimum, so I will have to get a job immediately.

I am going to apply for the L permit in the meantime as part of my 'appeal'.
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Old 19.06.2015, 14:58
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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I found it intrusive, that is all. I would have preferred you to open your own thread to ask such a question which I think is fair.
In general mods prefer to have questions related to a single topic all together in the same thread rather than clogging the forum up with loads of threads about the same thing.

He could have phrased the question more tactfully ( something like ' did they tell you the minimum amount needed to support the two of you') but it wasn't an unreasonable question to be asking on this thread.

Last edited by Belgianmum; 19.06.2015 at 15:10.
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Old 19.06.2015, 14:59
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Re: Permit refused, please help!

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Thanks again. I'm much more at ease about it knowing all of this.

Just regards health insurance, do you think I can have my previous monthly premium return, given it was invalid to me without the residence permit?

I thought it was required to even make an application as the office insisted on having proof of it to add to my document bundle for the initial application which led me to believe I had to have it from the off - and not after three months.
quick additional note to remember: when you re-enter as a tourist make sure you have travel insurance. as a tourist your "on holiday" here technically whatever you may be up to, so you need a normal holiday insurance cover from your source country to cover you in case you have an accident while you are here. of course as soon as you find a job and the permit process kicks in you will go back to swiss health insurance, but if your tourist visa is for 3 months make sure you get a full 3 months Travel Insurance covering medical before you arrive.
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