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Old 08.09.2015, 12:08
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Applying for C permit in another Canton

According to this regulation (https://www.admin.ch/opc/de/classifi...index.html#a34), it seems that people who received education for 3 years (B permit) plus 2 years (B permit) can apply for a C permit.

I have stayed in Vaud for 5 years as student but I will move to the German speaking part to work. Will Art.34 still apply? At least I don't see canton-change is a requirement in written form for applying C permit, but I heard rumours that that Art.34 is subject to Cantons, i.e. if you move to another Canton, then your previous years of continuous residence will be cleared and you start from 0 years. Is it true?
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Old 08.09.2015, 17:34
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

Depends on your nationality, the 5 year rule only applies to EU nationals. If you're non-EU the earliest you can apply is when you've been here 8 years.

According to you you've been a student for 5 years so where are the extra 2 years with a C (permanent) permit?

5 Vorübergehende Aufenthalte werden an den ununterbrochenen Aufenthalt in den letzten fünf Jahren nach den Absätzen 2 Buchstabe a und 4 nicht angerechnet. Aufenthalte zur Aus- oder Weiterbildung (Art. 27) werden angerechnet, wenn die betroffene Person nach deren Beendigung während zweier Jahre ununterbrochen im Besitz einer Aufenthaltsbewilligung für einen dauerhaften Aufenthalt war.1

5 Temporary periods of stay, in particular for education or training (Art. 27), do not count towards the uninterrupted period of stay in the last five years in accordance with paragraphs 2 letter a and 4. Periods of stay for education or training (Art. 27) are included if the person concerned, after their completion, held a permanent residence permit for an uninterrupted period of two years.1

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html

Which doesn't make sense really - why would you apply for a C permit if you already have a C permit for 2 years after you completed your studies?

But yes, to answer your question, you will likely have to start again on a B permit. The canton in question won't have any records of your stay with them so the slate is wiped clean I believe.

If possible stay in Vaud until you can apply for the C permit, assuming you can do it now (check with the migration office), and then move later.
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Old 08.09.2015, 17:51
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

Medea, the Aufenthaltbewilligung is a B, not a C (Niederlassungsbewilligung), so the OP should be eligible to apply.

But I have no idea how to answer his/her question.
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Old 08.09.2015, 18:05
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

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Medea, the Aufenthaltbewilligung is a B, not a C (Niederlassungsbewilligung), so the OP should be eligible to apply.

But I have no idea how to answer his/her question.
Thanks LiquidPaper. I put both the French and German versions through Google Translate and both mentioned permanent residence permit same as the English version does.

fishkid, depending on which canton you're moving to - assuming you could apply for a C permit there - you may also need to speak German to a certain level. Zurich canton requires this for a C permit for example, not just that you've been resident in Switzerland for 5 years. This can depend on your nationality though, but without knowing where you're from I can't say whether you'd need this or not.
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Old 08.09.2015, 22:59
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

I've been living in Vaud for more than 10 years, and I know :
  • EU & non-EU students who've automatically been granted C permits after 5 years of continuous study without even requesting them.
  • EU students who've been denied a C after 5 years of study and granted another B.
  • EU post-docs who automatically received C permits after 5 years of work/residence (because apparently being a post-doc counts as work).
  • EU post-docs who were denied a C permit after 5 years of continuous work/residence and received a second 5-year B, even after being told they should apply for the C. (Reason given: apparently being a post-doc does not count as work.)
Same commune, within a span of less than a year. All colleagues of mine (or maybe even me, but I'll never tell... )

Seriously, student/postdoc permit renewal is such a crapshoot I don't think you can expect to find any legit advice here, it all seems to come down to who evaluates your file and how they interpret the rules. But my feeling is that moving cantons would almost certainly guarantee that you receive a B again, whereas if you remain in Vaud you might get lucky. Could you possibly postpone moving until after your permit renewal, on the off chance you receive a C? I know of a few "long PhD" students in Vaud who recently received Cs after five years, and two were non-EU. (I figure they got the summer intern who didn't know the rules looking at their application, but my friends were pretty happy with the mistake.)

In all cases best of luck,

H.
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Old 08.09.2015, 23:04
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

As an afterthought, could you consider postponing your "official" move if you need to start work immediately? Maybe stay at an Air BnB on the German side but come back to Vaud on weekends until your new permit arrives? All the while keeping your place of residence in Vaud? This saves having to apply for a C permit in a new canton, and might improve your chances of getting a C here.

Or maybe not, just trying to provide some options...
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Old 09.09.2015, 14:51
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

Hi, thanks for your reply. I am non-EU.

Yes, I have a B (student B) in Vaud for five years and I am asking if I can get a C after 2 years of work in another Canton, i.e. in 2017 (I am not applying for it right now, but in 2 years!). As you quoted:

Periods of stay for education or training (Art. 27) are included if the person concerned, after their completion, held a permanent residence permit for an uninterrupted period of two years.

I have 5 consecutive years of B residence in Vaud as student, and in 2017 I will have 2 years of B residence for work. In this case, I will meet this requirement of Art. 27. The only thing is that I will work in another Canton in a German speaking Canton , so I don't know if the will count my years in Vaud.





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Depends on your nationality, the 5 year rule only applies to EU nationals. If you're non-EU the earliest you can apply is when you've been here 8 years.

According to you you've been a student for 5 years so where are the extra 2 years with a C (permanent) permit?

5 Vorübergehende Aufenthalte werden an den ununterbrochenen Aufenthalt in den letzten fünf Jahren nach den Absätzen 2 Buchstabe a und 4 nicht angerechnet. Aufenthalte zur Aus- oder Weiterbildung (Art. 27) werden angerechnet, wenn die betroffene Person nach deren Beendigung während zweier Jahre ununterbrochen im Besitz einer Aufenthaltsbewilligung für einen dauerhaften Aufenthalt war.1

5 Temporary periods of stay, in particular for education or training (Art. 27), do not count towards the uninterrupted period of stay in the last five years in accordance with paragraphs 2 letter a and 4. Periods of stay for education or training (Art. 27) are included if the person concerned, after their completion, held a permanent residence permit for an uninterrupted period of two years.1

https://www.admin.ch/opc/en/classifi...232/index.html

Which doesn't make sense really - why would you apply for a C permit if you already have a C permit for 2 years after you completed your studies?

But yes, to answer your question, you will likely have to start again on a B permit. The canton in question won't have any records of your stay with them so the slate is wiped clean I believe.

If possible stay in Vaud until you can apply for the C permit, assuming you can do it now (check with the migration office), and then move later.
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Old 09.09.2015, 14:55
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

Thanks for this reply :-)

I have stayed in Vaud for 5 years, but I don't speak French. I actually do speak German :-D That's one of the reasons why I decide to move to the German-speaking area :-D So you mean if I move to another Canton, they will not have any record about me? I can show them 5 B-permit cards that I renewed each year. They cannot get my data from Vaud?

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Thanks LiquidPaper. I put both the French and German versions through Google Translate and both mentioned permanent residence permit same as the English version does.

fishkid, depending on which canton you're moving to - assuming you could apply for a C permit there - you may also need to speak German to a certain level. Zurich canton requires this for a C permit for example, not just that you've been resident in Switzerland for 5 years. This can depend on your nationality though, but without knowing where you're from I can't say whether you'd need this or not.
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Old 09.09.2015, 15:13
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

Hi, thank you very much!

The thing is I finished my study here (5-year B in total), and found a job in a German Canton (starting in a few months, right after I officially get the certificate). I will not have a student permit any more. Instead, the new permit is B, which is issued by the Canton where the company is located.

What I am asking is what will happen in 2 years. Because the Art. 27 says, my student permit for 5 years will be counted as continuous living after two years work. In other words, I will have 7 years in total in Switzerland. Will I be able to apply a C at that time?

From your stories, I learned that someone even got a C when still enrolled in a PhD program. This is a bit of luck. I probably agree with you that this really depends on the person who process your application.

Now I am just not sure whether or not to move completely to the German Canton, or I will work in that Canton but continue living in Vaud (the drawback is that Vaud has much higher tax).

If I move completely to the new Canton, will they know I have been in Switzerland for more than 5 years? Or simply count me as new arrival?


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I've been living in Vaud for more than 10 years, and I know :
  • EU & non-EU students who've automatically been granted C permits after 5 years of continuous study without even requesting them.
  • EU students who've been denied a C after 5 years of study and granted another B.
  • EU post-docs who automatically received C permits after 5 years of work/residence (because apparently being a post-doc counts as work).
  • EU post-docs who were denied a C permit after 5 years of continuous work/residence and received a second 5-year B, even after being told they should apply for the C. (Reason given: apparently being a post-doc does not count as work.)
Same commune, within a span of less than a year. All colleagues of mine (or maybe even me, but I'll never tell... )

Seriously, student/postdoc permit renewal is such a crapshoot I don't think you can expect to find any legit advice here, it all seems to come down to who evaluates your file and how they interpret the rules. But my feeling is that moving cantons would almost certainly guarantee that you receive a B again, whereas if you remain in Vaud you might get lucky. Could you possibly postpone moving until after your permit renewal, on the off chance you receive a C? I know of a few "long PhD" students in Vaud who recently received Cs after five years, and two were non-EU. (I figure they got the summer intern who didn't know the rules looking at their application, but my friends were pretty happy with the mistake.)

In all cases best of luck,

H.
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Old 09.09.2015, 15:14
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

Thanks, I'll consider this possibility. It seems to be a little bit complicated :-D

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As an afterthought, could you consider postponing your "official" move if you need to start work immediately? Maybe stay at an Air BnB on the German side but come back to Vaud on weekends until your new permit arrives? All the while keeping your place of residence in Vaud? This saves having to apply for a C permit in a new canton, and might improve your chances of getting a C here.

Or maybe not, just trying to provide some options...
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Old 09.09.2015, 18:11
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

I think after 2 years in the new kanton you'll be fine. The application being in the future actually makes it easier. The authorities will definitely know you've been here for seven years, but it's always a good idea to keep copies of your permits.
I would think you should completely move to the new kanton, as the application will be in two years at the earliest.
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Old 18.09.2015, 11:05
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Re: Applying for C permit in another Canton

I dunno ... we live in Aargau and we (non-EUers) had to 'reboot' the 10-year C-permit waiting period after moving from one Gemeinde from another.

Maybe things have changed or there are Cantonal differences.
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